Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Moderator: AndyB
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Thank you Goof, If the authors did not have the legal means to force publishers to pay them a percentage on the resales of their comics abroad, your hypothesis is indeed the most logical
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Good morning.
After 'Line' in 1955-63 and 'Frimousse' in 1964, Belle Auburn and her friend Mamie also made an appearance in issue 12 of 'Capucine' in July 1966.
This is most certainly the "Highland Assignment" adventure, because, according to the recent Wikipedia entry(1) (to which I did not contribute - except for a small correction)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_du_Ballet
...on the last page, Belle is made offered a fur coat and hat and had her suitcase stolen on the train...
"Belle et Mamie sur les hautes cimes" ("Highland Assignment" ?) p.48
... exactly what is mentioned by the heroine (and the text of the summary) at the beginning of "The Russian Furs" ("Les Fourrures ensorcelées" in vf, in 'Line' n°14 of October 31, 1963)
"Les Fourrures ensorcelées" ("The Russian Furs")
I have the impression that they must have been the most popular Heroines of English origin with French girls...
How popular were they with British girls ?
(1) thanks to this page I now know that the original title of "Belle et la Cendrillon volante" is "The Bird Girl"
After 'Line' in 1955-63 and 'Frimousse' in 1964, Belle Auburn and her friend Mamie also made an appearance in issue 12 of 'Capucine' in July 1966.
This is most certainly the "Highland Assignment" adventure, because, according to the recent Wikipedia entry(1) (to which I did not contribute - except for a small correction)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_du_Ballet
...on the last page, Belle is made offered a fur coat and hat and had her suitcase stolen on the train...
"Belle et Mamie sur les hautes cimes" ("Highland Assignment" ?) p.48
... exactly what is mentioned by the heroine (and the text of the summary) at the beginning of "The Russian Furs" ("Les Fourrures ensorcelées" in vf, in 'Line' n°14 of October 31, 1963)
"Les Fourrures ensorcelées" ("The Russian Furs")
I have the impression that they must have been the most popular Heroines of English origin with French girls...
How popular were they with British girls ?
(1) thanks to this page I now know that the original title of "Belle et la Cendrillon volante" is "The Bird Girl"
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Thanks for posting the examples from Capucine - the first time that I’ve seen Belle and Mamie having a row!
How popular the series was in the UK is an interesting question. I don’t know of any source of hard information about the relative popularity of UK girls’ comic series. The original editors constantly monitored this, of course, with regular appeals to readers, but apart from the occasional reader’s letter I don’t think they ever published the results. So it seems that we can only judge the relative popularity of any series from how long it lasted.
If you include "Belle and Mamie" in the count, Belle lasted for around 13 ½ years in a virtually unbroken run. I don’t know of any UK reprints. Admittedly, this included a revamp of the series when it changed from “Belle of the Ballet” to the slightly “older” “Belle and Mamie”, but it still compares favourably with a number of other long-running girls’ series of the time. However, it wasn’t the longest lasting. Here are a few rivals:
• The Four Marys (Bunty): 43 years from 1958, with a few interruptions
• Bobby Dazzler (Judy): 23 years from 1965, probably with a few interruptions
• Patty’s World (Princess Tina, Pink, Mates, Girl): 16 Years from 1972, continuously
• The Happy Days (Princess, Princess Tina, Pixie): 13 years from 1960, continuously, plus another 8 years or so of reprints in annuals etc. There was also a monthly series of picture libraries which ran in tandem with the weekly series for 8 ½ years (including reprints). A few of these stories were still being reprinted in the mid-1980’s.
• The Silent Three (School Friend): Around 13 years from 1950, probably with interruptions
• Lucky’s Living Doll (School Friend, June): 10 ½ years from 1963 continuously, plus another 6 years or so of reprints in annuals, etc
• Mam’selle X (Girls’ Crystal, School Friend, June): About 10 years from 1961 very intermittently, including 14 picture libraries and some reprints.
• Bella at the Bar (Tammy): 10 years, with interruptions
In terms of longevity, The Four Marys was certainly the most popular girls’ series, and this is reflected in the reminiscences of Bunty readers to this day. However, Bunty probably had a wider readership than Girl or Princess, which were largely aimed at middle-class readers. Among Girl’s immediate rivals, The Silent Three and The Happy Days matched Belle in longevity, and The Happy Days published far more stories during its run, and was producing reprints for a further 10 years.
So I think that Belle was one of the most popular series of its period, and may have been the most popular series published in Girl, but she wasn’t the most popular of all.
By the way, this doesn’t take account of cartoon characters, or Bessie Bunter would win hands down – 1919 to 1984 including countless reprints!
How popular the series was in the UK is an interesting question. I don’t know of any source of hard information about the relative popularity of UK girls’ comic series. The original editors constantly monitored this, of course, with regular appeals to readers, but apart from the occasional reader’s letter I don’t think they ever published the results. So it seems that we can only judge the relative popularity of any series from how long it lasted.
If you include "Belle and Mamie" in the count, Belle lasted for around 13 ½ years in a virtually unbroken run. I don’t know of any UK reprints. Admittedly, this included a revamp of the series when it changed from “Belle of the Ballet” to the slightly “older” “Belle and Mamie”, but it still compares favourably with a number of other long-running girls’ series of the time. However, it wasn’t the longest lasting. Here are a few rivals:
• The Four Marys (Bunty): 43 years from 1958, with a few interruptions
• Bobby Dazzler (Judy): 23 years from 1965, probably with a few interruptions
• Patty’s World (Princess Tina, Pink, Mates, Girl): 16 Years from 1972, continuously
• The Happy Days (Princess, Princess Tina, Pixie): 13 years from 1960, continuously, plus another 8 years or so of reprints in annuals etc. There was also a monthly series of picture libraries which ran in tandem with the weekly series for 8 ½ years (including reprints). A few of these stories were still being reprinted in the mid-1980’s.
• The Silent Three (School Friend): Around 13 years from 1950, probably with interruptions
• Lucky’s Living Doll (School Friend, June): 10 ½ years from 1963 continuously, plus another 6 years or so of reprints in annuals, etc
• Mam’selle X (Girls’ Crystal, School Friend, June): About 10 years from 1961 very intermittently, including 14 picture libraries and some reprints.
• Bella at the Bar (Tammy): 10 years, with interruptions
In terms of longevity, The Four Marys was certainly the most popular girls’ series, and this is reflected in the reminiscences of Bunty readers to this day. However, Bunty probably had a wider readership than Girl or Princess, which were largely aimed at middle-class readers. Among Girl’s immediate rivals, The Silent Three and The Happy Days matched Belle in longevity, and The Happy Days published far more stories during its run, and was producing reprints for a further 10 years.
So I think that Belle was one of the most popular series of its period, and may have been the most popular series published in Girl, but she wasn’t the most popular of all.
By the way, this doesn’t take account of cartoon characters, or Bessie Bunter would win hands down – 1919 to 1984 including countless reprints!
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Thank you Goof for this very detailed presentation.
It confirms to me that the success of one work compared to another can vary considerably outside its country of origin.
In "Line" - which is the only girls' magazine for which I have all the issues - I can tell you that 'Belle of the Ballet' & 'Belle and Mamie' lasted much longer than 'The Happy Days' ( 'Les Jours Heureux' in vf) also published in 'Line'.
'Belle of the Ballet' was published there from No. 1 of March 10, 1955 to No. 3 of June 1963, where it was interrupted following an editorial change favoring “complete” stories at the expense of “to be continued” stories. Belle Auburn and Mamie will return in the two stories of 'Belle and Mamie', already mentioned, in n°12 of November 1963 and n°14 of December (the very last) with stories “to be continued” grouped to form complete stories.
'The Happy Days', despite its great qualities (1) will not have the same success in 'Line': beginning in issue 299 of November 30, 1960 > end in issue 393 of September 18, 1962.
No other series - whether British, French, Belgian, or of another origin - will have the lasting success of 'Belle of the Ballet' in 'Line': Belle Auburn and Mamie are the only heroines to have been present in the first and last issue of the magazine
(1) whose charm will, in my eyes, be weakened by the replacement of the original designer.
It confirms to me that the success of one work compared to another can vary considerably outside its country of origin.
In "Line" - which is the only girls' magazine for which I have all the issues - I can tell you that 'Belle of the Ballet' & 'Belle and Mamie' lasted much longer than 'The Happy Days' ( 'Les Jours Heureux' in vf) also published in 'Line'.
'Belle of the Ballet' was published there from No. 1 of March 10, 1955 to No. 3 of June 1963, where it was interrupted following an editorial change favoring “complete” stories at the expense of “to be continued” stories. Belle Auburn and Mamie will return in the two stories of 'Belle and Mamie', already mentioned, in n°12 of November 1963 and n°14 of December (the very last) with stories “to be continued” grouped to form complete stories.
'The Happy Days', despite its great qualities (1) will not have the same success in 'Line': beginning in issue 299 of November 30, 1960 > end in issue 393 of September 18, 1962.
No other series - whether British, French, Belgian, or of another origin - will have the lasting success of 'Belle of the Ballet' in 'Line': Belle Auburn and Mamie are the only heroines to have been present in the first and last issue of the magazine
(1) whose charm will, in my eyes, be weakened by the replacement of the original designer.
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Thanks, Vautour, it’s nice to see Belle getting the appreciation she deserves. So many great UK comic strips have been largely forgotten in this country.
Perhaps it’s not surprising that The Happy Days had comparatively little success in France. A good deal of the charm of the series was its suburban English setting, and this was never likely to have much appeal in other countries. The Fleetway editors were clearly aware of this themselves. When the series was transferred to Princess Tina following the merger with Tina, a comic with an international circulation, the Day family temporarily emigrated to Canada to broaden their appeal!
Having said that, if Line had persisted for a couple more years, they could have printed one or two stories that were set in France – in one of which the Mona Lisa gets stolen!
Also, I and I think most fans of the series would agree with you about the artists who substituted for the main artist Andrew Wilson. He did almost all of the weekly comics, but evidently had no time to do anything else, and the editors seem to have had terrible trouble trying to find adequate replacements for the picture libraries, annuals and so on, that he didn’t do. Personally, I think the best of these was our old friend Stanley Houghton, who did a few of the weekly stories and ten of the picture libraries.
Perhaps it’s not surprising that The Happy Days had comparatively little success in France. A good deal of the charm of the series was its suburban English setting, and this was never likely to have much appeal in other countries. The Fleetway editors were clearly aware of this themselves. When the series was transferred to Princess Tina following the merger with Tina, a comic with an international circulation, the Day family temporarily emigrated to Canada to broaden their appeal!
Having said that, if Line had persisted for a couple more years, they could have printed one or two stories that were set in France – in one of which the Mona Lisa gets stolen!
Also, I and I think most fans of the series would agree with you about the artists who substituted for the main artist Andrew Wilson. He did almost all of the weekly comics, but evidently had no time to do anything else, and the editors seem to have had terrible trouble trying to find adequate replacements for the picture libraries, annuals and so on, that he didn’t do. Personally, I think the best of these was our old friend Stanley Houghton, who did a few of the weekly stories and ten of the picture libraries.
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Thank you Goof for this very nice page. The drawing is beautiful, but it does not have the delicacy of that of Andrew Wilson, nor the subtlety that he put into the facial expressions of his characters.
Note that some stories will also be published in the French edition of the magazine "Tina'" and, in "Frimousette'" at the end of the 60s.
I also noticed that, from the 1950s until the beginning of the 1980s, French magazines for girls had published many more English novels and comics than French magazines for boys... even if they had anonymously (no author credits, and names of characters and places, Frenchified). This observation is, obviously, not exostive, I have not read everything that is published, but when I read a girl's magazine from this period, there are almost always one or more pages of English comics , conversely it's rare in a magazine for boys.
Note that some stories will also be published in the French edition of the magazine "Tina'" and, in "Frimousette'" at the end of the 60s.
I also noticed that, from the 1950s until the beginning of the 1980s, French magazines for girls had published many more English novels and comics than French magazines for boys... even if they had anonymously (no author credits, and names of characters and places, Frenchified). This observation is, obviously, not exostive, I have not read everything that is published, but when I read a girl's magazine from this period, there are almost always one or more pages of English comics , conversely it's rare in a magazine for boys.
Last edited by vautour2b on 23 Mar 2024, 17:48, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
My apologies, Vautour. I should have mentioned that the picture posted in my last message is in fact drawn by Andrew Wilson.
Wilson’s style underwent an astonishing transformation during the 13 year run of The Happy Days. If you know the stories mainly through the reprints in Line, you may only have seen part of this, if Line stopped reprinting in 1962. Here are a few examples:
April 1960
November 1962
May 1970
August 1972
The example I posted in my last message was from June 1965.
The scope of the changes between 1960 to 1972 is such that anybody might think that more than one artist is involved, but the experts all seem to agree that Andrew Wilson drew the series throughout this period. By way of real contrast, here’s an example of the work of the main substitute artist Len Potts, from Princess Picture Library 33 “Sue Fights for Justice”:
Little wonder that most fans of the series find the substitute artists less than satisfactory!
Wilson’s style underwent an astonishing transformation during the 13 year run of The Happy Days. If you know the stories mainly through the reprints in Line, you may only have seen part of this, if Line stopped reprinting in 1962. Here are a few examples:
April 1960
November 1962
May 1970
August 1972
The example I posted in my last message was from June 1965.
The scope of the changes between 1960 to 1972 is such that anybody might think that more than one artist is involved, but the experts all seem to agree that Andrew Wilson drew the series throughout this period. By way of real contrast, here’s an example of the work of the main substitute artist Len Potts, from Princess Picture Library 33 “Sue Fights for Justice”:
Little wonder that most fans of the series find the substitute artists less than satisfactory!
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Hell, it's an astonishing evolution in style!!! (and not a development that excites me!). I would never have guessed it was the same designer!
Of Wilson's four plates, only the first from April 1960 was published in 'Line' (No. 310 of February 14, 1961)
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In your list, there are several series that have been published in French magazines
Edit : error on a magazine name in the text on the republications of "The Happy Days" (I wrote "Patty" instead of "Line"), sorry !
Of Wilson's four plates, only the first from April 1960 was published in 'Line' (No. 310 of February 14, 1961)
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In your list, there are several series that have been published in French magazines
Edit : error on a magazine name in the text on the republications of "The Happy Days" (I wrote "Patty" instead of "Line"), sorry !
Goof wrote: ↑16 Mar 2024, 22:44(...)
• The Four Marys (Bunty): 43 years from 1958, with a few interruptions
• Bobby Dazzler (Judy): 23 years from 1965, probably with a few interruptions
• Patty’s World (Princess Tina, Pink, Mates, Girl): 16 Years from 1972, continuously > 'Le petit monde de Pat' (vf), ('Patty' magazine) in 1976
• The Happy Days (Princess, Princess Tina, Pixie): 13 years from 1960, continuously, plus another 8 years or so of reprints in annuals etc. There was also a monthly series of picture libraries which ran in tandem with the weekly series for 8 ½ years (including reprints). A few of these stories were still being reprinted in the mid-1980’s. > 'Les Jours Heureux' and 'Suzon' (vf), ('Line', 'Tina'[french edition], 'Frimousette') in the 1960s
• The Silent Three (School Friend): Around 13 years from 1950, probably with interruptions > 'Les trois X' then 'Les trois fantômes'(vf), ('Le journal de Nano et Nanette'), in the 1960s
• Lucky’s Living Doll (School Friend, June): 10 ½ years from 1963 continuously, plus another 6 years or so of reprints in annuals, etc > 'Tina la petite poupée' (vf), ('Le journal de Nano et Nanette'), in the 1960s
• Mam’selle X (Girls’ Crystal, School Friend, June): About 10 years from 1961 very intermittently, including 14 picture libraries and some reprints.
• Bella at the Bar (Tammy): 10 years, with interruptions
(...)
Last edited by vautour2b on 24 Mar 2024, 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Thanks for the details of these reprints, Vautour. I had come across some of them on the website encyclo-bd, but didn’t know about the reprints of Lucky’s Living Doll or The Happy Days. As you say, it’s very striking how many stories from UK girls’ comics were reprinted in France, and I think the same is true for the Netherlands. In the meantime, many of the best of these series have never been reprinted in the UK at all.
Another Princess series that I’m very fond of, which I’m pleased to see was reprinted in Le Journal de Nano et Nanette, was “Circus Ballerina” (“Sally Ballerine du Cirque” and others). I think that only three or four stories were reprinted in Nano, but for a while it was the second most popular series in Princess, after The Happy Days. It ran for over 3 ½ years, and there were also 36 picture library titles. The weekly series had some beautiful art from Bill Lacey, and the picture libraries had a roster of good artists including Hugh Thornton-Jones, Dudley Wynne, Tom Kerr and R B Davis.
Another Princess series that I’m very fond of, which I’m pleased to see was reprinted in Le Journal de Nano et Nanette, was “Circus Ballerina” (“Sally Ballerine du Cirque” and others). I think that only three or four stories were reprinted in Nano, but for a while it was the second most popular series in Princess, after The Happy Days. It ran for over 3 ½ years, and there were also 36 picture library titles. The weekly series had some beautiful art from Bill Lacey, and the picture libraries had a roster of good artists including Hugh Thornton-Jones, Dudley Wynne, Tom Kerr and R B Davis.
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Again, thank you for all these details. I wish you a happy Easter
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Many thanks, Vautour. A very happy Easter to you also.
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Hello Vautour,
In case this is of use, I can provide a few more details of the original English names and publication dates in Girl for some of the Belle stories:
Le Joyeux Camp-Volant = The Jolly Wagoners: 24/7/57 – 19/3/58
Le Casino de “Port-Jolie” = The Pier Theatre: 26/3/58 - ? September 1958?
Romance Royale = A Royal Romance: around October – December 1958?
La Duchess = The Duchess: 4/2/61 – 24/6/61
Le Theatre Secret = The Secret Theatre: 1/7/61 – 25/11/61
In case this is of use, I can provide a few more details of the original English names and publication dates in Girl for some of the Belle stories:
Le Joyeux Camp-Volant = The Jolly Wagoners: 24/7/57 – 19/3/58
Le Casino de “Port-Jolie” = The Pier Theatre: 26/3/58 - ? September 1958?
Romance Royale = A Royal Romance: around October – December 1958?
La Duchess = The Duchess: 4/2/61 – 24/6/61
Le Theatre Secret = The Secret Theatre: 1/7/61 – 25/11/61
Re: Belle of the Ballet-Lyndy of Latymer Grange
Thanks Goof, that’s very considerate.