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Racist Daily Mail 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:43 pm
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I have right wing views and read the Daily Mail and I don't like the way we are deemed to be some sort of public enemy. Is it because the Daily Mail wants to see terrorists shown no leniency unlike your leader Mr Corbyn (who quickly changed his views after seeing how unpopular it had made him).


Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:58 pm
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stevezodiac wrote:
I have right wing views and read the Daily Mail and I don't like the way we are deemed to be some sort of public enemy. Is it because the Daily Mail wants to see terrorists shown no leniency unlike your leader Mr Corbyn (who quickly changed his views after seeing how unpopular it had made him).

Shoot to kill or not shoot to kill is not about leniency to terrorists but about the danger to innocents IMHO - the difficulty of getting it right, and indeed the requirement to actually be able to ask questions later & get more info from arrested people, which you can't do if they are dead. Additionally I think that yes, the dehumanizing effect of cartoons such as the one under discussion is a real problem; it will lead to refugees and to immigrants being targetted, abused, attacked. It will lead to loss of life through its racist message.

We are getting :offtopic2: of course. I'll shut up now.

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Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:27 pm
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It's not shoot-to-kill as a death sentence for crimes but shoot-to-kill to prevent loss of immediate life, i.e. someone running down your High Street with a Kalashnikov is shoot-to-kill. Someone with a Kalashnikov at home but no weapons on them would simply be arrested.

Ahhh politics on a comics discussion forum :roll:

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Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:38 pm
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starscape wrote:
It's not shoot-to-kill as a death sentence for crimes but shoot-to-kill to prevent loss of immediate life, i.e. someone running down your High Street with a Kalashnikov is shoot-to-kill. Someone with a Kalashnikov at home but no weapons on them would simply be arrested.

Ahhh politics on a comics discussion forum :roll:


Sure, but shoot-to-kill has also had innocent casualties - de Menezes, Irish chaps carrying chair legs, etc etc.

Oh wait I said I'd shut up - I will now :D

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Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:09 pm
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The alternative is allowing mass murder when there is a deemed to be a clear and present danger to the public by seasoned police officers.

A last resort but one that needs to stay.

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Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:37 pm
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starscape wrote:
Ahhh politics on a comics discussion forum :roll:
It is in the non-comics section though, starscape, therefore clearly legitimate.
comixminx wrote:
We are getting :offtopic2: of course. I'll shut up now.
No we're not, comixminx. You carry on.


Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:48 pm
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I'm a mild-mannered Lefty, and I generally don't mind conservative types, each to their own, but I dislike newspapers that cross the line into bigotry, or bait readers with "If you don't agree with me you're a pathetic waste of space" opinon columns. The latter kind of drunken-loudmouth-in-a-pub writing seems to be an Australian speciality.


Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:51 am
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Though it's a long time since I actually looked through a copy of the Daily Mail, in my experience the people who read it seem to be pretty decent sorts for the most part - as are the majority of journalists who work for it (many of them rumoured to be closet lefties themselves!). If I have a problem at all it's with the broad political agendas that tend to be imposed from above by narrow-minded proprietors with a personal axe to grind.


Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:02 am
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stevezodiac wrote:
I have right wing views and read the Daily Mail and I don't like the way we are deemed to be some sort of public enemy. Is it because the Daily Mail wants to see terrorists shown no leniency unlike your leader Mr Corbyn (who quickly changed his views after seeing how unpopular it had made him).



Corbyn's actual quote was:

"I'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general. I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often be counter-productive. I think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can."

Note: "in general".

This was, then, typically, presented out of context by the right wing media to suggest that he'd said that he definitely wouldn't employ shoot-to-kill towards terrorists in a Paris-type situation.

He didn't say this and at no point has he "changed his views."

Corbyn tends to give careful, measured, nuanced answers to complex questions rather than soundbites, and this doesn't tend to play well in today's media.


Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:24 pm
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Throgmorton

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Quite. Shooting to kill is only acceptable where it is the only way to prevent death or serious injury, and shooting to disarm is far more preferable, if difficult. Even Judge Dredd once shot Mean Machine Angel in the legs to disable him rather than kill him.

With Mac's latest controversial cartoon, I'm losing any respect for him, fine artist as he is.


Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:17 pm
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Currently the Daily Mail is running an expose on unseemly shenanigans within the tory party so it is not completely one sided.


Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:49 pm
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AndyB wrote:
Quite. Shooting to kill is only acceptable where it is the only way to prevent death or serious injury, and shooting to disarm is far more preferable, if difficult. Even Judge Dredd once shot Mean Machine Angel in the legs to disable him rather than kill him.

With Mac's latest controversial cartoon, I'm losing any respect for him, fine artist as he is.

There is no policy within the UK for a shoot to disarm. That is a construct of the media and fiction. If you have ever used weapons in anger, you will find that it's hard enough to pull the trigger let alone hit your target, so the training given is always to aim for the centre of mass. This is to minimise the potential of missing the target and causing harm to any innocent bystanders. This is why when you watch footage of armed police within the UK, they only fire single, aimed shots, not a clip on full automatic.

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Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:13 pm
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I only ever saw armed cops once in the UK in reality: this was when I passed the local jail, and an armed van containing drug barons [presumably] were being escorted into the jail, and two cops outside flanked both sides of the street, I expect this was to deter any attempt to spring the drug people by their desperado drug-friends.

The cops had what looked like small black sub-machine-guns [half-size approx] but I am no gun expert-----I never felt very safe in the presence of loaded guns like this to be honest.

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Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:57 pm
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Throgmorton

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You got immune to it when walking past police stations in Northern Ireland with the guard squad carrying rifles!


Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:19 pm
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ISPYSHHHGUY wrote:
I only ever saw armed cops once in the UK in reality: this was when I passed the local jail, and an armed van containing drug barons [presumably] were being escorted into the jail, and two cops outside flanked both sides of the street, I expect this was to deter any attempt to spring the drug people by their desperado drug-friends.

The cops had what looked like small black sub-machine-guns [half-size approx] but I am no gun expert-----I never felt very safe in the presence of loaded guns like this to be honest.


There were a few armed police at Euston Station last Saturday. Probably at a few other city stations too I'd guess.

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