Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Promoting new publications 
Author Message
Throgmorton

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:00 pm
Posts: 2241
Reply with quote
Hi folks

As many of you know, we have had a thread in General Comics Discussion started by a staff member of Haynes concerning the new Thunderbirds Haynes manual.

I've moved the thread to Non Comics Discussion while we talk about the principle of the thread. Inevitably, there will always be self-promotion on this forum, because we want to support British comic creatives and researchers, but I think we should distinguish between the following categories:-
  1. Posts by creatives and researchers regarding their forthcoming publications
  2. Posts by people outside the industry (ie most of us) regarding publications we have seen or have been told are on their way
  3. Posts by publishers promoting their own comics-related material
  4. Posts by publishers outside the comics industry using tenuous links for pure promotional reasons
This isn't remotely straightforward. If, for the sake of argument, Joe Bloggs, forum member, saw the Haynes Thunderbirds manual, there is no reason why they could not post about it in at least Non Comics Discussion, but I'm not personally happy with Haynes staff coming on here to promote it.

On the other hand, I'm perfectly happy for comics publishers and their associates (so Waverley Books would be included when they publish books for DCT) to post about publications we might otherwise miss.

What does everyone else think? Should we ban the fourth one in principle, but retaining a measure of discretion? Do you think I'm right about the others?


Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:30 am
Profile WWW
Mr Valeera
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:06 pm
Posts: 3464
Location: Lost in time, lost in space
Reply with quote
This is an interesting one to discuss. I am inclined to go for allowing staff of companies to promote their material in the same way we allow artists to promote their portfolios. As long as the item in question has a direct link to comics (in this case, the great Graham Bleathman's art), I think that we should allow the promotion to continue.

After all, I AM going to discuss the Judge Dredd movie ad nauseum.

_________________
I started to say something sensible but my parents took over my brain!


Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:57 pm
Profile WWW
Throgmorton

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:00 pm
Posts: 2241
Reply with quote
Yes, Colin, but since when were you associated with the Judge Dredd movie? ;)


Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:16 am
Profile WWW
Mr Valeera
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:06 pm
Posts: 3464
Location: Lost in time, lost in space
Reply with quote
AndyB wrote:
Yes, Colin, but since when were you associated with the Judge Dredd movie? ;)
Well, now you mention it... :lol:

I try and get perspective on subjects such as these, but it doesn't always happen.

My personal view is that creators/associates of creators use this board as a way of advertising new books/comics/GNs coming out. So in that way, the said Haynes manual is covered as it is a book and it is comic-associated (says he with at least one Thunderbirds comic/GN hiding in the background). However, if we were to be used to advertise a line of toys by said company then that thread would be beyond the pale for me.

This may be hypocrisy to some readers, but in my mind there is a clear delineation between comics and products. As I read the comics/GNs/books but would never buy the products. So Action Force comics would be within my remit, but the toys would not.

Discuss...

_________________
I started to say something sensible but my parents took over my brain!


Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:42 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:58 pm
Posts: 2829
Location: Highboro'
Reply with quote
I think on a lot of smallish community-type forums it's generally considered good manners to be a member for some time and to have made a fair number of general posts before starting to plug your product, as opposed to joining solely to sell something in your first post, having taken no interest in the forum and its doings beforehand (and often not returning again thereafter). That does seem to be quite an agreeable method of conduct.

Having said that, such posts might lead us to something interesting that members didn't previously know about, even if it's not the politest etiquette.

Much worse are the people who join to ask a question, get answers, and don't even post again to say thanks!


Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:00 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:15 pm
Posts: 372
Location: Hull - UK
Reply with quote
AndyB wrote:
What does everyone else think? Should we ban the fourth one in principle, but retaining a measure of discretion? Do you think I'm right about the others?
Well, I'd favour a ban on posts by publishers outside of the comic industry. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg as regards the use of social media to promote products. It's an approach that has grown exponentially this year, and only this particular forum's narrowly defined demographic has spared us the full weight of the spammers.

I'd personally have no problem with a strict 'Goods and Services' sub-forum where representatives of companies, usually their PR spods, can post 'Hi - I have XYZ for sale and you may be interested…' but I doubt it would work, because their whole approach is to weave their way into the community. The TB book seller's first post was…
HaynesCamilla wrote:
Anyone been watching Thunderbirds? I've been watching some old clips on youtube.
Which, at best, feels insincere in light of subsequent posts of a more mercantile nature. Phoenix suggests it's impolite - to which I'd add; it also feels sneaky and not in the spirit of this board.

_________________
My new art blog...beta version... http://mikedcuk.blogspot.co.uk


Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:17 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:59 am
Posts: 5
Reply with quote
I didn't mean to come across as impolite, it was more to generate an interest and thinking by posting 'new Thunderbirds Haynes manual out now' it would have been impolite. No? I chose specifically to post on here as it is a relevant product for comic fans, but I appreciate the different views - it is a very interesting discussion.


Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:58 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:22 pm
Posts: 816
Location: UK
Reply with quote
I would support Camilla posting on the forum, as there are a number of Gerry Anderson/Graham Bleathman fans here (myself among them), but agree that it should be in the non-comics area of the forum.

:)

_________________
Gerry Anderson ComixComicArtFansCSO Cult TV ZineDr Who Fannual
- - -
Currently on eBay!


Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:28 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:16 am
Posts: 563
Location: Wimbledon, UK
Reply with quote
HaynesCamilla wrote:
I didn't mean to come across as impolite, it was more to generate an interest and thinking by posting 'new Thunderbirds Haynes manual out now' it would have been impolite. No? I chose specifically to post on here as it is a relevant product for comic fans, but I appreciate the different views - it is a very interesting discussion.

Basically, the issue here is, the actual content of your post was more or less irrelevant - it was the fact that you were paid to post it which grates. You are an advertiser, no matter which way one slices it - and in most comics, advertisements have a disclaimer reading "ADVERTISEMENT" across the top.

As I said in the original thread, I don't particularly have a problem with advertisements, particularly ones relevant to the subject matter of this forum (or, as in this case, at least likely to be of interest to its general demographic). But I feel advertisements which are not clearly marked as such amount to, yes, deception. It's not 'impolite' to admit that you are not actually a genuine member of this forum - rather, it is truthful.

Considering that Comics UK and its forum are services which are provided for free, doubtless at a not inconsiderable cost to Al (the admin), I feel it's ethically dubious at best to use those services for the purpose of directing money at a for-profit company such as Haynes. I stand by my earlier use of the term "freeloading". No comic would provide advertising on its pages for free, and I don't think Comics UK should either.

If there is demand for promoting products on this forum - and the threads about the Haynes Thunderbirds manual and Microsoft's Brandon Generator promotion (which was much more deceptive and badly-behaved than HaynesCamilla's fairly open manner) suggest that there is - then it must be time to set up an official advertising mechanism.

My proposal is:

  • Declare your interest to Al, pay him an agreed sum, and he'll activate your account as a member of a new "advertisers" group (which, for example, makes your username show up in a non-standard colour) and permit you to post your promotion.
  • More than one promotion (not including non-promotional replies to community members asking questions/making comments about a previous promotion) will require more than one payment (so it's not an all-you-can-eat bargain).
  • Any advertisers failing to comply with these rules may be reported as spammers by Comics UK's community and deleted by the moderators.
  • Possibly, higher rates could be offered to make the promotional topic sticky for a defined period of time, thus making it more prominent.
  • These rules apply only to people who are in the pay of companies (whether for-profit or not) to advertise the product being promoted. Anyone may promote a product if they are not directly being paid to do so (note that this doesn't rule out, for example, promoting your own book, as the publisher is not paying you to do so), and the self-employed (e.g. artists) or hobbyists (e.g. bloggers, comic traders) may continue promoting their wares as before.
  • And if the marketer wishes to become a genuine member of Comics UK's community, they can always open a second account under their own name.

Anyone got any amendments to suggest?

_________________
Help! Help! We're being held prisoner in a signature factory!


Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:51 pm
Profile
Guru

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:15 pm
Posts: 4776
Reply with quote
swirlythingy wrote:
Any advertisers failing to comply with these rules may be reported as spammers by Comics UK's community and deleted by the moderators.
swirlythingy wrote:
Anyone got any amendments to suggest?
Well, I don't think their crime is that heinous, Swirly. Can't they be allowed to leave the forum while still alive?


Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:25 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:15 pm
Posts: 372
Location: Hull - UK
Reply with quote
The 'paying for advertising' thing is a non-starter on a site this small. The best thing to do is consider posts by paid minions promoting products to be spam, however polite the spammer :) ...unless they are directly working for a publisher of UK comics. Exceptions could be made for projects outside the comics field by long term contributers to the forum.

_________________
My new art blog...beta version... http://mikedcuk.blogspot.co.uk


Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:35 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:51 pm
Posts: 908
Location: UK
Reply with quote
Would 'the product' be of interested to the British comic community?

Yes, as far as Thunderbirds go. It's heavily comics-related in fact.

As long as it's posted in the correct place, what's the problem? Camilla can add value to the post if she's working in the company (and I don't really care if she is in fact a he, as it's just a name). So they want to sell more Thunderbirds books. So what? Don't we want that too? It's not aggressive. It's not vastly off-topic, if at all. It's not dominating the board by endless postings on multiple threads. It's not indiscriminate posts on an unrelated board. Therefore, it's no more spam than the director of Judge Dredd asking if people are interested in his movie (and if you think that's still spamming, you've had a sheltered life).

I'd much rather read the ins-and-outs of a comics-related subject by a person on the inside than some of the really tedious posts by certain people on the outside.

It's nothing. Move on. No offence caused except to the easily-offended.

_________________
STARSCAPE
http://StarscapeOnline.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Starscape ... 7891434222
comics, cartoons, music & movies


Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:50 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:16 am
Posts: 563
Location: Wimbledon, UK
Reply with quote
Have you ever noticed what a high proportion of content in British newspapers is simple rehashings of press releases, some of which were explicitly designed to provide free advertising for a given company by dressing up marketing claims as 'news'?

Annoying, isn't it?

I'm not saying I don't think there's a place for this stuff. I'm just saying that it should be clearly marked as such, and that the owner of this ever-so-attractive free-to-rent advertising space should be rightly entitled to a cut.

_________________
Help! Help! We're being held prisoner in a signature factory!


Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:30 pm
Profile
Mr Valeera
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:06 pm
Posts: 3464
Location: Lost in time, lost in space
Reply with quote
It's interesting that you use the director of JD as an example Chris. Because can you imagine if Sir Ridley Scott came on and asked about his movies/career? There would be plenty fanboys that would be in ectasy over that.

And every article about any movie starlet can be considered as a push for their latest movie/clothing line/perfume. So anyone that buys any newspaper/magazine can be considered to be perpetuating the "free ads".

So making people pay to give us the "nod" about forthcoming products is an interesting idea, but would exclude Commando CO and Classics From The Comics from participating in a free and open debate {as they currently do} as we would consider them interested parties who are pushing a DCT product.

I am not trying to pick an argument, but would like to take this discussion further as this is the kind of exchange of views I always considered that the internet was capable of.

Let's keep it up. :D

_________________
I started to say something sensible but my parents took over my brain!


Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:23 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:16 am
Posts: 563
Location: Wimbledon, UK
Reply with quote
colcool007 wrote:
So making people pay to give us the "nod" about forthcoming products is an interesting idea, but would exclude Commando CO and Classics From The Comics from participating in a free and open debate {as they currently do} as we would consider them interested parties who are pushing a DCT product.

That's exactly why, in my earlier post, I was careful to make sure that 'advertiser' was extremely narrowly defined. There are a lot of potential conflicts of interest, borderline situations, etc., but I think HaynesCamilla's thread fits the most indisputable definition of advertising, in that someone paid specifically to promote a product is promoting a product. Excluding all employees of Haynes from ever posting here would make no sense, whether they happened to be discussing their employer's products or not. Ditto Classic Comics, unless he's transferred to DC Thomson's marketing department since we last heard from him.

You can split hairs all you like, but the only alternative definition is, to misquote Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it..."

_________________
Help! Help! We're being held prisoner in a signature factory!


Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:49 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software.