Beano - just for kids?

[Raven]

The explosion of creativity in The Beano in the 1950s came about as the powers-that-be realised they had to better reflect the kids of the day, but since then the kids of the 1950s have been used as the exact same template for decades thereafter, which I believe did somewhat alienate later generations.

I don't think it was so much that they decided to reflect the kids of the day, but that they gave a creative, inspired artist like Leo Baxendale his head, and, actually despite their earlier instructions and wishes, finally allowed him to do what he wanted - but his own inspirations included Giles cartoons for adults, 1940s cinema cartoons, and things as old as the Marx Brothers - that is, I doubt he ever thought "I must reflect the kids of today."

His suits and mortar boards weren't to make the comic, but the adult characters seem archaic, as he understood the need to give the kid characters a perfect foil. He wrote how important it was to get Minnie's dad absolutely right (his choice was a suit, overriding the staff who wanted him to reflect a working man), and, as I mentioned in a recent exchange with Lew, Dennis's dad was also presented as stiff and stuffy, the absolute nemesis of Dennis's exuberance and lack of self control, to give Dennis his comedic raison d'être; i.e. these were timeless templates that could last indefinitely.

I think the "relevance to da kidz of today/should alienate the adults" idea (more of a modern way of thinking, in light of years of punk rock documentaries!), if applied without understanding those concepts, can potentially lead things a little astray ...

But that's not to deny your feelings or experiences. As a kid in the '70s, I found The Beano (which especially seemed cosy and parent-approved) and Dandy far too old fashioned and archaic even then, and much favoured the fresher, more modern and "hip", kid-friendlier seeming (they weren't obsessed with child beating!) IPC titles by far. But did I actually identify with Ad Lad, Joker, Pete (of the Pockets), Cheeky, Kids' Court and Creature Teacher's class? I'm not sure what that would mean.

I think the ideal is still to give inspired, idea-packed, creative people their head (as long as they bear in mind that their target readership is children) and not allow the ideas of the marketing/focus group people to seep in.

[Digifiend]

I think that's why I gravitated more towards Buster and Oink! as I grew up, stuff that felt a bit more energetic and varied. And then, in my early teens, I discovered The Simpsons, and the family dynamic in that was MUCH more in line with what I knew, and the naughty boy was MUCH more naughty, and suddenly The Beano felt like reading something from the 1890s.

Indeed, Bart and co are one of the problems The Beano has to contend with - the popularity of the Simpsons, and particularly, Simpsons Comics.

Dennis and Bart are very similar characters (and completely coincidentally too - Matt Groening was actually inspired by the American Dennis, yet Bart is more like the British one). They both misbehave, they both have spiky hair, they're both so infamous their families can't get a babysitter! Needless to say, though, there was one major difference until recently, and that's that Bart was so much more modern than Dennis. Those roles are starting to reverse now due to Auchterlounie's writing on Dennis and the modernised parents and setting (the result of last year's redesigns and the 2009 cartoon). Meanwhile Bart is actually getting more dated as time goes by, as his manner of speech is very 1990s (it's no wonder that Homer is now the star of the show). I guess both have the same problem in that respect. They've been running so long, how do you update them without upsetting the fans? You can't please everybody.

[NP]

...It's all very well basing the comic off of the feedback you got back from the readers (ages 8-11) via email but it isn't enough...

This is quite the most surreal notion of the day.

[WizzKid97]

...It's all very well basing the comic off of the feedback you got back from the readers (ages 8-11) via email but it isn't enough...

This is quite the most surreal notion of the day.

Well how else do the fans get into contact with the editor to share their views? Clearly you can't on the website as they have to be approved by the Webguy and it seems that any negative comments about the comic on the website are rejected.

My point I'm trying to make is that if the editor wants to hear the readers' views, there needs to be an easier way to do that. Kids between the ages of 8-11 rarely have emails so don't have Twitter or Facebook so how do the readers get in touch with The Beano? After all, the comments seemed to have disappeared for a long time on the website - only now have I started to see more.

I suppose I worded that badly though, I mean that the comic should be based off of the readers' opinions but the only way to contact The Beano Editor shouldn't be through email. Instead I think surveys would work a lot better as then Craig has some statistics and can change the comic accordingly.

[Raven]

Indeed, Bart and co are one of the problems The Beano has to contend with - the popularity of the Simpsons, and particularly, Simpsons Comics.

Dennis and Bart are very similar characters (and completely coincidentally too - Matt Groening was actually inspired by the American Dennis, yet Bart is more like the British one). They both misbehave, they both have spiky hair, they're both so infamous their families can't get a babysitter! Needless to say, though, there was one major difference until recently, and that's that Bart was so much more modern than Dennis. Those roles are starting to reverse now due to Auchterlounie's writing on Dennis and the modernised parents and setting (the result of last year's redesigns and the 2009 cartoon). Meanwhile Bart is actually getting more dated as time goes by, as his manner of speech is very 1990s (it's no wonder that Homer is now the star of the show). I guess both have the same problem in that respect. They've been running so long, how do you update them without upsetting the fans? You can't please everybody.

Hasn't Homer been the star since at least season three way back in the early Nineties?!

It's not really the same thing, anyway, (The Simpsons isn't a children's programme), but The Beano could never really compete with The Simpsons for material, as the TV series, at its peak, anyway, was written by a whole team of among America's top, sharpest - and very highly paid - comedy writers, who wouldn't work for Beano wages or uncredited. So they don't have anything like the same resources.

[NP]

Well how else do the fans get into contact with the editor to share their views? Clearly you can't on the website as they have to be approved by the Webguy and it seems that any negative comments about the comic on the website are rejected.

My point I'm trying to make is that if the editor wants to hear the readers' views, there needs to be an easier way to do that. Kids between the ages of 8-11 rarely have emails so don't have Twitter or Facebook so how do the readers get in touch with The Beano? After all, the comments seemed to have disappeared for a long time on the website - only now have I started to see more.

I suppose I worded that badly though, I mean that the comic should be based off of the readers' opinions but the only way to contact The Beano Editor shouldn't be through email. Instead I think surveys would work a lot better as then Craig has some statistics and can change the comic accordingly.

You do know there was a time before emails, don't you? I think your time could be well spent having a look into the history of how comics are produced from the inside, you'll probably be very surprised. A lot of your assumptions are very wide of the mark.

[NP]

...The Simpsons... writers... wouldn't work for Beano wages or uncredited

That's all true, but there was one Beano artist or writer who did get to join the Bongo team about 20 years ago. I can't remember who it was now, but he didn't hide the fact he was ex-Beano. Still, what has LA got that L8 hasn't?

[WizzKid97]

Well how else do the fans get into contact with the editor to share their views? Clearly you can't on the website as they have to be approved by the Webguy and it seems that any negative comments about the comic on the website are rejected.

My point I'm trying to make is that if the editor wants to hear the readers' views, there needs to be an easier way to do that. Kids between the ages of 8-11 rarely have emails so don't have Twitter or Facebook so how do the readers get in touch with The Beano? After all, the comments seemed to have disappeared for a long time on the website - only now have I started to see more.

I suppose I worded that badly though, I mean that the comic should be based off of the readers' opinions but the only way to contact The Beano Editor shouldn't be through email. Instead I think surveys would work a lot better as then Craig has some statistics and can change the comic accordingly.

You do know there was a time before emails, don't you? I think your time could be well spent having a look into the history of how comics are produced from the inside, you'll probably be very surprised. A lot of your assumptions are very wide of the mark.

I mean at present. Of course I know there was a time before emails, I just don't know how the editor is able to hear back from the readers otherwise. How about instead of just criticising me for my comments, you instead explain what it is I want to know?

[Raven]

That's all true, but there was one Beano artist or writer who did get to join the Bongo team about 20 years ago. I can't remember who it was now, but he didn't hide the fact he was ex-Beano. Still, what has LA got that L8 hasn't?

Palm trees. Sunshine.

How on earth did a Beanoer end up in the temple of comedy that was the famous Simpsons Writing Room, amidst all those ex-Harvard Lampoon staff, and writers with substantial US TV credits? Very difficult for a Brit to end up on staff in American TV comedy! There must be an interesting story there.

[AndyB]

Well, neither LA nor L8 have the Courier building or the former printing works on Kingsway

One thing to remember is that while the target audience is 8-11 year olds, not one contributor is in that age range. I would also suggest that while we are undoubtedly a decent-sized minority, we over-20s (sorry Harry, but I'm being generous to myself and most of the forum members...) are not the ones to be pleased unless we are buying comics for our kids, beyond that if a comic works for all ages everyone wins. It is also entirely true that the Beano editorial team do read and consider all views expressed to them, even the ones they disagree with.

I have mixed feelings about the Beano changes for all sorts of reasons (since when did BB wear the No. 10 shirt? He was always No. 9!), but you know what bothered me a little about the last two weeks' Beanos, reading them together?

I actually wondered if the humour was too subtle and sophisticated in places!

Don't ask me to nail it down and give examples, but I just had that feeling.

[NP]

...Of course I know there was a time before emails, I just don't know how the editor is able to hear back from the readers otherwise. How about instead of just criticising me for my comments, you instead explain what it is I want to know?

That's why I suggested you spent a little time researching your topic.

[Raven]

That's all true, but there was one Beano artist or writer who did get to join the Bongo team about 20 years ago.

RE: my initial response - ah, of course, you meant the comics. The Bongo team is "just" the comics, isn't it?

[WizzKid97]

...Of course I know there was a time before emails, I just don't know how the editor is able to hear back from the readers otherwise. How about instead of just criticising me for my comments, you instead explain what it is I want to know?

That's why I suggested you spent a little time researching your topic.

Point me in the right direction then please. I have no idea as of how to go about researching this topic.

Like I said, just explain to me how the editor is able to hear back from all of the readers then. I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about and you seem to know.

[NP]

Well, neither LA nor L8 have the Courier building or the former printing works on Kingsway

Ah, the glamour of Kingsway.

...while we are undoubtedly a decent-sized minority, we over-20s... are not the ones to be pleased unless we are buying comics for our kids, beyond that if a comic works for all ages everyone wins. It is also entirely true that the Beano editorial team do read and consider all views expressed to them, even the ones they disagree with.

Yes, and then some.

I have mixed feelings about the Beano changes for all sorts of reasons ...I actually wondered if the humour was too subtle and sophisticated in places!

Change can be unsettling, it's true. But, y'know, change means things are alive, it's when they're dead that they don't change.

[Gilly]

I actually wondered if the humour was too subtle and sophisticated in places!

Don't ask me to nail it down and give examples, but I just had that feeling.

I actually wondered that when especially reading Ball Boy. A lot of it is actually making fun of how the game has been the last few years, and subtle football references which might blow over some readers heads.

Being a massive football fan though, I like it.