Is The Dandy no longer educational?

[Lew Stringer]

The project has to be controversial, in that there is scope for some debate. My idea is evidently controversial, as there have been over 60 replies, each stating a different point of view. It might well be that it is controversial because it is wrong in stating that the Dandy was once educational, as its remit was never to be educational. The problem lies in finding academic works to back up my findings, and this may not be possible for the educational option. However, although there are plenty of works regarding the success of the Dandy and Beano, that is not at all controversial, and if it's not controversial, I'm not allowed to do it. Unfortunately I don't make the rules! A controversial title would be something along the lines of "The decline of the Dandy is responsible for the decline of society as a whole" but that may be taking it a bit far. I don't mind the heated debate. I said don't be afraid to disagree with me, and it's interesting to be able to hear other people's opinions on the matter.

Perhaps if you'd told us from the outset that your remit was to be controversial we'd have understood your agenda. So far it sounds like this demand for it to cause controversy might hold it back from being fair and balanced although I'm sure you'll try to avoid that.

I'm not sure how it'll be controversial outside of this group though. Surely your peers and lecturers won't know much about Dandy history to offer any contradiction?

May I ask why you think the 1950s Dandy is so relevant to your thesis, as opposed to, say issues from the 1940s or 1960s?

Lew

[Elliotgc]

I discovered that sales of the Dandy in the 1950s peaked at 2035010 on the 22nd April 1950 and nowadays average 28000 per fortnight. I wonder whether anyone knows where I could find records of the Dandy's sales year by year, which would show a clear decline in sales, which I would argue is due to a decline in quality. I would be looking to compile a questionnaire in the next few weeks and would be grateful if some of you could answer this. I can only do the project if it is controversial, so please don't be afraid to disagree with me.

I did state it at the start :s. It doesn't matter that most people won't know much about it. Some people might be doing obscure scientific or historical things, and I don't know anything about them. It's very specific and specialist, and that's all that matters.

I thought about doing a comic from each of the eras, but as I only have 3000 words for analysis and I can write about 1000 words of analysis on each comic strip, that would have been difficult. I may do one from the 1940s, one from the 1960s, one from the 1980s and 2000s. I just picked the 1950s because it was the peak and golden age of British comics; the time when sales were at the highest and when no child would be seen without a Beano or Dandy - the opposite to what is now the case! As this was just after the war, there were many comic strips about fighting the Germans, such as Addie and Hermy. The Dandy may not have contained a lot of these stories, but it still contained some. The decline of the Dandy was something which I felt strongly about, so I thought I could write about that. I also thought it was something I was rather knowledgeable about, and I would enjoy the research, rather than doing something dull that didn't really interest me. Also, if I buy any books, I'll enjoy reading them, without it feeling like a chore.

[Lew Stringer]

I did state it at the start :s.

So you did. Sorry. I missed that bit for some reason.

As this was just after the war, there were many comic strips about fighting the Germans, such as Addie and Hermy. The Dandy may not have contained a lot of these stories, but it still contained some.

Surely all those references were during the war years? I may be wrong, as I don't have many Dandys from that era, but Kashgar (who, as Ray Moore, is the author of The Dandy Index) did say there were only a couple of war strips in the 1950s.

Even so, I don't quite see how it factors in your thesis. It's only natural that references to WW2 died out over the decades as it's not something current readers would immediately identify with without loads of explanation bogging down the story. Hardly controversial then, that it's no longer mentioned.

Have you seen the Horrible Histories magazine? (I'm not sure if it's still being published, but the Annual is I think.) That featured comic strips with an educational and fun content. Might be worth seeking it out to show that such strips haven't entirely vanished.

Lew

[Digifiend]

The Horrible Histories Magazine is actually a 80 issue partwork. It's finished, but apparently it's relaunching next month. Also, they've confirmed the 2011 annual, let alone 2010. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horrible_Histories

It's also a book series and two TV shows. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horrible_H ... TV_series)

Elliot, Addie and Hermy ran from 1939-1941.

[Lew Stringer]

Another thought about comics with educational/literary merit: Classical Comics have produced some fine graphic novel adaptations of famous novels. So there are still British strips of that nature published, just not in the old weekly format.

Their latest book, Great Expectations, is drawn by John Stokes, one of the artists who freelanced for IPC years ago.

http://www.classicalcomics.com/

Lew

[Raven]

I just picked the 1950s because it was the peak and golden age of British comics

(Cough) ... the 1970s ... (Cough)

[felneymike]

[cough] the 1920's [/cough]

I think he was referring to the high sales of the Beano and Dandy in 1950 to indentify that decade as the "peak" XD.

That said i think i read somewhere that one number of either the Boys' Friend or Union Jack reached over 2 million readers once!

[Raven]

I think he was referring to the high sales of the Beano and Dandy in 1950 to indentify that decade as the "peak" XD.

Ah, but there's a lot more to a peak and golden age than just sales - and, indeed, a lot more to British comics than just Beano and Dandy ...

A thesis on how the 1920s were the peak era of British comics would be even more skull-shatteringly controversial than Elliot's! "No, British comics were already well past their peak and a spent force twenty years before Leo Baxendale started ... "

[Lew Stringer]

[cough] the 1920's [/cough]

I think he was referring to the high sales of the Beano and Dandy in 1950 to indentify that decade as the "peak" XD.

That said i think i read somewhere that one number of either the Boys' Friend or Union Jack reached over 2 million readers once!

And the late great Denis Gifford always saw the 1930s as the golden age of British comics. I'm not sure how well those pre-war, pre-Dandy penny comics sold but it'd certainly be high figures.

The true golden age of comics of course is whenever you were a child.

Lew

[Raven]

The true golden age of comics of course is whenever you were a child.

Lew

This is true but only if you were a child in the 1970s.

[Digifiend]

Jeez Raven! I had to increase my zoom to see that last bit of text. Now where did I leave that magnifying glass...

[Kashgar]

Seeking to be controversial is quite an easy business, all you need to do is to adopt a stance to a generally accepted mind-set that is at odds with that mind-set. Proclaiming that the 'Nigger Dan' Desperate Dan series from 1946 was the best Dan series ever because it was a searing indictment of racial prejudice could, for example, be considered a controversial statement. Unfortunately I can't see much 'controversial' mileage in dissing the Dandy for a decline in its educational standards and relating that to its declining sales.
I also think you have to very careful Elliot when trying to create a work of academic merit based around juvenile reading matter that you aren't in danger of being seen as the lad who researched his essay by spending a few weeks reading comics.
That being said if you need any particular details, Dandy or otherwise, just let me know and I'll see if I can help.

[MikeC]

Here's a really controversial topic for you:

Despite sales being at an all-time low, The Dandy is now the best it's ever been...

[runs for cover shouting "it's a joke!"]

But, if your point is at odds with sales figures, general opinion and people's natural nostalgia, you have a much better, more controversial topic.

[STARBOY]

I certainly agree with Kashgar, I don't see falling sales being controversial - I would imagine that it's general knowledge that all sales in print are dropping (due in part to the Internet - ie recently newspapers have said they are looking ot charge for their online pages etc) , other interests and economics etc rather than quality (thats a persoanl opinion IMHO)- I was going to suggest the "racism" element as well, that is certainly controversial and there are examples as Kashgar has stated you could cite - you could make an ( erronious IMHO)case that the PC element means that byy stopping stereotyping foreigners that the Dandy is less funny and folk moved away from it etc.

[Digifiend]

Here's something you can mention - the modern Dandy is sexist. It used to proudly proclaim on its cover that it was Fun for Boys and Girls (1987-1998). But now, it's got rid of all it's female lead characters (Beryl was dropped when it became a boys-only comic). I've always thought that the Xtreme relaunch must've alienated a good proportion of the readers - i.e. all the girls. Just look at the way Jak's sister Mandy is portrayed.