Dandy again...

[Phoenix]

The thing is Beanomax has twice as long to get it's features right (a month instead of a fortnight)

You appear to be equating the time required to prepare a comic for sale, Digi, with the gap between one issue and the next. If this were the case, I suspect that Dundee's hospitals would be treating a lot more Thomsons' staff for stress-related ailments than they do now. Such deadlines are far too tight, especially where innovations are concerned. Also what if there are unexpected delays in the delivery of the free gifts already advertised for the next issue? In the halcyon days of the weekly text story papers it was generally felt that there was a five-week preparation period for each issue. This certainly allowed time for competition entries to be judged, panels of prizewinners to be prepared and inserted, and for leisurely reflections on any reader surveys that had been undertaken. Perhaps someone from the company who is actually working on the production of these papers could enlighten us about current practices.

[tony ingram]

The thing is Beanomax has twice as long to get it's features right (a month instead of a fortnight)

You appear to be equating the time required to prepare a comic for sale, Digi, with the gap between one issue and the next. If this were the case, I suspect that Dundee's hospitals would be treating a lot more Thomsons' staff for stress-related ailments than they do now. Such deadlines are far too tight, especially where innovations are concerned. Also what if there are unexpected delays in the delivery of the free gifts already advertised for the next issue? In the halcyon days of the weekly text story papers it was generally felt that there was a five-week preparation period for each issue. This certainly allowed time for competition entries to be judged, panels of prizewinners to be prepared and inserted, and for leisurely reflections on any reader surveys that had been undertaken. Perhaps someone from the company who is actually working on the production of these papers could enlighten us about current practices.

I'm not qualified to say how long a lead time is needed on comics, but speaking from the point of view of magazine production, we're now working on Crikey#13, which is due out in late December-and it usually takes around ten weeks to get an issue completed.

[Digifiend]

If the Dandy takes the same amount of time, they'd have to be working on five issues at the same time. I know it's not the last two weeks before the on sale date (they have to allow time for printing and distribution after all), but surely they do have a two week deadline, and try to keep a reserve ready if something goes wrong - for example, a strip failing to arrive on time, as Beanotown.com said happened to one of Ken Harrison's Minnie the Minx's recently (due to a postal strike). In that particular case they used a reprint instead.

[Lew Stringer]

Since the Dandy went "Xtreme", distribution has become noticably poorer.

Must depend where you live. Around here circulation has definitely improved in the last 12 months.

Lew

[Phoenix]

If the Dandy takes the same amount of time, they'd have to be working on five issues at the same time.

That goes without saying, Digi, but I think we can safely assume that the various team members will be clear about their roles, and that these will be overseen by sub-editors, with the ultimate responsibility lying with the editor, who will have an overview of the requirements over whatever the working period is. They will always be busy but while the activity will not be as intense as it will be for those people who are putting tomorrow's newspapers together, it will be more intense, I imagine, than in Tony's office as he and his colleagues prepare Crikey! I am, of course, referring only to the time element rather than the page-design factor. You do raise an interesting point with your reference to Ken Harrison's Minnie the Minx strip. Somebody was clearly at fault there as such sloppiness should never be allowed to happen, but it does introduce another component, that of what expected items are not available as the comic/magazine is being put together. It would be interesting to know whether Tony has all the articles and illustrative material in his possession at the beginning of his ten-week countdown period to completion. It would be a mighty job to create an 84-page magazine in ten weeks if he didn't have the majority of the content at the starting point, whereas presumably Beanomax has been stockpiling strips in Thomsons' time-honoured manner.

[Jonny Whizz]

I think the death of the great Dudley Watkins was a good example of the different way DCT's comics (Beano, Dandy, Beezer etc.) worked from the Sunday Post, which he drew Oor Wullie and the Broons for, and I believe they were his absolute priority, but after his sudden death on 20th August 1969, while the comics had stockpiles of his work that lasted for a few months, there were only 2 strips of Oor Wullie and the Broons ready, so I think they became reprint for 5 or so years after that.

[Digifiend]

The Broons and Oor Wullie have always been in the Sunday Post, not the Weekly News.

[Jonny Whizz]

Thanks, I've corrected that now. I thought that the Weekly News wasn't quite right, and it wasn't. I should have checked beforehand.

[Phoenix]

Now that Jonny has corrected the error in his post about Oor Wullie and The Broons appearing in The Weekly News, the post in which Digi points the error out to him and his own reply to Digi are now completely meaningless. Why can't there be a narrow time limit for editing a post? Surely a simple acknowledgement of the mistake would make more sense. I have put this post here rather than in Suggestions because it is immediately relevant to other posts on this thread.

[Digifiend]

I know what you mean. Digital Spy's forum has a 30 minute time limit. However, some other boards I visit also have the same infinite editing time we have here.

[Jonny Whizz]

I'm sorry about that. I just thought it was best to edit it in case there were people who didn't know which publication Oor Wullie and the Broons appeared in. I realised a while ago that the information in these forums is important for future reference. I could always go back and re-edit that post, but then all the following posts would become meaningless as well, so it would become a Catch 22. In future, I think I'll just leave any posts I make with errors on.

I'd rather we kept the unlimited editing time myself. That way, we can go back and change something if we think we need to. For example, if I notice any spelling mistakes on my posts, I can change them.

[Digifiend]

Good point. I find it very annoying when you spot a mistake and it's too late to do anything about it.

I think what Phoenix meant was that you should've acknowledged my correction, but not edited your post. Ultimately, it's up to Al to decide if we need to change the edit time limit or not. Let's try to get back on topic now, OK?

[AndyB]

I am but one voice in the midst of thousands (well, three, then) but I prefer editing the original and "oops, fixed!"...

[Phoenix]

I prefer editing the original and "oops, fixed!"

Why exactly, Andy? Your system merely allows the original mistake to be corrected but it still leaves subsequent posts, at least those making reference to the post containing the error, out on a limb, looking stupid and pointless. More importantly, it disrupts the absolutely fundamental thrust of this forum and any others like it, that of encouraging conversation. In the real world we cannot unsay what we have said, we can only correct any mistakes in real time, ie subsequently. If we use my system rather than yours, all threads will reflect this real world, conversations in the street or a pub for example, within the obvious limitations of a format that cannot actually have instant replies, and every post will relate sensibly to every other.

[MikeC]

Fair points Digi, but those characters were on the cover and it didn't halt the downfall of sales. Today's logic is that putting Star Wars or Harry Potter on the cover is far more likely to have a recognition factor than Desperate Dan. It's hard to argue against that.

Certainly, Lew. But why arn't they using both sets of characters on the cover? It's a further example of there being no "glue" to hold everything together.

They had an established brand name and have practically decided to ditch it. Since the Dandy went "Xtreme", distribution has become noticably poorer. And no doubt overall product recognition too.

Thomsons have really tried to make The Dandy survive. The 2004 all-new-strip revamp made it look bright and modern, and the Xtreme revamp tried to emulate the popular magazine style of today. What else could they have done?

Design it properly and give readers some content rather than page after page of half-arsed features that took ten minutes to make. Sorry, but this really angers me...

Presumably because their opinion of what is right differs from yours. And as they have jobs in the industry, presumably they are better informed than you. Lew is right. Magazines don't do anything because they're , they do things on guidance from lots of different departments and agencies., not some notion of how things used to be - the 2004 revamp did what you propose - it didn't work.

Edited because I sank to someone else's level - apologies!

To deny that magazine production is a task where many departments have input is just silly. Of course it does.

So your argument (paraphrased):

they can't receive advice because if they did they would do it differently

becomes:

the fact they receive advice and then do it the way they do means the advice must suggest that course of action

if it makes you angry enough to come on here and bang keys about it, you need a different hobby! How about some praise for a title not lying down and fading away, for trying to do something different, even if you don't like it? Sales of comics have been falling for fifty years, mostly everything has been tried, to little avail. If the people who work on comics read any of this, they would soon think comic fans weren't worth caring about in any case, ditch the comic strips we love and do something like Jetix!

Not forgetting my friendly icon this time!