Are weekly comics doomed?

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Raven
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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by Raven »

Bigwords wrote:
Raven wrote:
Bigwords wrote:What's the relevance of Curb Your Enthusiasm here? (I'm not sure what incidents you're referring to there.)
The last season was released on the internet rather than on a network, and it was hailed by some as the end of television as we know it.

That's not right, is it? Didn't it première on HBO in July 2011, as mentioned here:

http://www.flicksnews.net/2011/04/curb- ... son-8.html

"The new season of Curb Your Enthusiasm premieres July 10 only on HBO and sees Larry David going back to New York."

I can find lots of references to it being broadcast on the HBO network at 10pm on Sunday nights from July 10th but no references to it being released on the internet instead, with HBO reporting ratings increasing as the series progressed.

Phoenix
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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by Phoenix »

colcool007 wrote:Found it and put it back on. I must have hit the wrong button.
When you've found that pesky edit button again, Colin, could you please resume your search for that first issue of Roy of the Rovers. :lol:

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colcool007
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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by colcool007 »

Phoenix wrote:
colcool007 wrote:Found it and put it back on. I must have hit the wrong button.
When you've found that pesky edit button again, Colin, could you please resume your search for that first issue of Roy of the Rovers. :lol:
It may take a while for permissions to update.

As to Roy, I have found 80's and 90's so far, but no 70's apart from annuals.
I started to say something sensible but my parents took over my brain!

Bigwords
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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by Bigwords »

Raven wrote:That's not right, is it? Didn't it première on HBO in July 2011, as mentioned here:

http://www.flicksnews.net/2011/04/curb- ... son-8.html
The page I had bookmarked the information on is gone. :(
There was a list of television firsts, with things seemingly getting worse and worse for traditional revenue streams as people moved away from sitting down and watching "as broadcast" (the time-shifting technology we have now is just another step on from recording on video cassette). One of the annoying things about the internet is that things disappear - one of the reasons I have been hesitant in accepting digital comics is that very reason.

No, television will not be replaced. People have been doom-mongering the end since first-run syndicated programming became "respectable" (don't laugh at that), and the numbers of people using on-demand still don't justify any shift away from what we have. As much as people want to believe that the internet is all, there are large swathes of the country which have poor-to-nil access to the internet's rich content.

Channel 4 has highlighted the abysmal state of the UK's internet. Compared to South Korea, Britain is practically in digital infancy.

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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by AndyB »

I'll talk Colin through putting the edit function back on later on today. I can do it quickly, but it's better for Colin and Al to know how to do it too - but I promise it will be back on then. There will be a couple of configuration setting changes too.

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Digifiend
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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by Digifiend »

Bigwords wrote:The page I had bookmarked the information on is gone. :(
Check http://web.archive.org then.

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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by Bigwords »

Digifiend wrote:
Bigwords wrote:The page I had bookmarked the information on is gone. :(
Check http://web.archive.org then.
Wayback is good, but it doesn't catch everything. :(

I *did* find notes on video recording technology, to work out how long people had been predicting the end of television, and we are coming up on seventy years from the first "television will soon be a thing of the past" warnings. Considering that the first big cutback of comic-book titles was the late 70s, and we are still seeing new titles launched (albeit a much rarer thing), there's no reason to worry about this question for another... *does math on fingers and toes* twenty years or thereabouts.

Just wondering - what would we need to see before there are threads asking "is the internet doomed"? Serious question. Everything else - television, audio cassettes, video cassettes, laserdiscs, DVDs, CDs, and (as far as some are concerned) comics - can been replaced in part or in whole by what the internet provides, but this can't surely be the culmination of mankind's achievements, can it? All those works of art, music, literature... and we end up with the internet.

big bad bri
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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by big bad bri »

Bigwords wrote:
Raven wrote:
Bigwords wrote:What's the relevance of Curb Your Enthusiasm here? (I'm not sure what incidents you're referring to there.)
The last season was released on the internet rather than on a network, and it was hailed by some as the end of television as we know it..
I thought it was Arrested development released on internet & that proved quite successful that they are now gonna do season 5 even though it wasn't as good as the network s 1-3

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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by AndyB »

Edit function should be fixed, drop us a line if it isn't.

Bigwords
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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by Bigwords »

big bad bri wrote:I thought it was Arrested development released on internet & that proved quite successful that they are now gonna do season 5 even though it wasn't as good as the network s 1-3
Thanky. That's the one. If webpages stayed where they ought to be it would make life so much easier.

Mercy Reviews hasn't been crawled by Wayback AT ALL. :cry:

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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by ISPYSHHHGUY »

I for one will more than likely never stream TV content: but I'm no spring chicken, and this approach is for a new generation.

I also never download music [I tried it once, it was just too removed from humanity to be remotely 'enjoyable'] and today I listened to 20-year-old CDs I dusted down, that still sound fine---on a mega-heavy, non-compact Yamaha amplifier that is a struggle to even lift, which is connected to large old-style speakers that were built to last in the 1970s! If I had the money, I'd buy expensive massive tower speakers, the opposite of the modern 'compact music on the go' culture.

I have listened to modern music on devices/headphones, and although it's pretty good, it doesn't sound as good as on my bulky sperates system at home. Modern devices are more geared for portability and endless choice, at the the expense of decent-quality, natural-sounding quality, and regarding choice, I have more than enough CDs at home to keep me entertained for years......

Regarding TV streaming, I doubt if it's as good as my 3-times-a-week trip to the cinema, or projecting blu-ray films [either commercial content or more obscure like The Island of Lost Souls] onto a 9-foot wide screen at home.I only ever see films in a front-projected state, and the occassional youtube dabbling I indulge in for checking out rarities yields pitiful results in comparison.


Yes there is endless material being streamed, but I packed in TV altogether a decade ago, due to the high ratio of dross put out by multi-channel TV: streaming will more than likely mean 'even more dross amongst the golden nuggets', going by past form----- I prefer cherry-picking the best stuff on blu-ray which serves my desires nicely------but for younger folks I reckon streaming is the way ahead.

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Digifiend
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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by Digifiend »

AndyB wrote:Edit function should be fixed, drop us a line if it isn't.
Yep, I see the Edit post button on my post above, thanks!

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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by Bigwords »

ISPYSHHHGUY wrote:I packed in TV altogether a decade ago
Coming up on a year and a half since I have watched anything as-broadcast, and... Not missing it. I still need my regular comic fix, and I NEED the radio - anything without vocals - but as computer games, television and film aren't doing anything new, there's no point in wasting time on those media.

One of the things which I'm still thinking on, regarding the main topic...

For novels, the artistic high point is probably something like The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman - not just the narrative, but the typographical experimentation. It took what novels were considered to be and threw away the rulebook. Radio has a couple of contenders - the War Of The Worlds broadcast probably edging out others due to familiarity - and television has had a few striking moments such as Ghostwatch. Where is the adventurous, rule-breaking, genre-crossing comics which the late-80s promised?*

In-between all the naysaying, and "look at the sales" (often for pointless titles which didn't deserve to be published in the first place), there was a brief hope that the "comics are for grown-ups" would allow people to get really creative with their storytelling, art and packaging. A lot of the apathy which surrounds comics from non-readers ought to be looked at in light of the creative daring which other media can accomplish. The comics which attempted to pull the new audiences - especially titles such as Raw and Zones - were bog standard reprints.

The way to save comics - and not just weeklies - is by aiming a little higher than the lowest possible quality setting.**

*Watchmen doesn't count (American publication), nor something like Maus (which, despite being lauded, isn't as radical as it could have been).
**Not a dis on any particular title, but an overall feeling that much of what is appearing - here and abroad - isn't attempting to do anything different in the face of shrinking sales and competition from other media. Chances aren't being taken, and with most stories I can tell what is happening from the first or second installment. There's no reason to keep reading if the writing isn't challenging.

Raven
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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by Raven »

Bigwords wrote: No, television will not be replaced. People have been doom-mongering the end since first-run syndicated programming became "respectable" (don't laugh at that), and the numbers of people using on-demand still don't justify any shift away from what we have.
Bigwords wrote: Coming up on a year and a half since I have watched anything as-broadcast, and... Not missing it.
Hmmmm .. see the irony?

Bigwords wrote: I *did* find notes on video recording technology, to work out how long people had been predicting the end of television, and we are coming up on seventy years from the first "television will soon be a thing of the past" warnings.
1943? Sources please.

And do you really think any naysaying about television from partway through WWII, many decades before the internet, apps and digitally-storing, interactive recording devices were invented or could even be imagined can have any relevance to the contemporary situation of a 21st Century digital age with such a rapid pace of change?

Bigwords wrote: As much as people want to believe that the internet is all, there are large swathes of the country which have poor-to-nil access to the internet's rich content.

Channel 4 has highlighted the abysmal state of the UK's internet. Compared to South Korea, Britain is practically in digital infancy.
Yes, and we've been lagging way behind America and Europe for years, but where they go, we'll follow - we have to. As your clip says, a fast broadband connection is "a vital part of business these days." So this obviously has to change.

Bigwords wrote:
One of the things which I'm still thinking on, regarding the main topic...]
But you go on to write about artistic high points in the form of experimental new directions, which is a separate thing from something regaining its foothold as a highly popular mass market medium, isn't it?
ISPYSHHHGUY wrote:I for one will more than likely never stream TV content: but I'm no spring chicken, and this approach is for a new generation.
As ISpy says, it's what the next generation onwards grow up with and want, and tots today are born into a world of interactive media - at home and in the classroom, used for learning and development from the off. They'll have all the unlimited entertainment they can dream of, instantly delivered to wherever they are, on TV, computer, or handheld device, growing up with very different media literacies than we did. Those - and future - cutting edge technologies are what comics - and all old fashioned narrative entertainment - will have to compete with.

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Re: Are weekly comics doomed?

Post by Bigwords »

Raven wrote:Hmmmm .. see the irony?
Just because *I* cant be bothered with nearly everything on television at the moment doesn't mean that it is suddenly going to vanish. If I did have such powers, to make what annoys me go away forevermore, then Dale Winton would be purchasing a pair of brown trousers about now...
Raven wrote:1943? Sources please.
The ridiculously expensive Ampex VRX-1000 hails from 1956 - there are a couple of prototypes dating back earlier than that, but that is the first "proper" recorder. There doesn't seem to be a list of individuals who purchased them, but one was found in a farm in Connecticut at some point around 1986 (the same haul that had a bunch of OTR recordings).
Raven wrote:And do you really think any naysaying about television from partway through WWII, many decades before the internet, apps and digitally-storing, interactive recording devices were invented or could even be imagined can have any relevance to the contemporary situation of a 21st Century digital age with such a rapid pace of change?
It shows that people are always looking at the negatives, and trying to tear things down. We shouldn't be looking to find fault with the way things are, but to improve the things we appreciate. Focusing on positives rather than negatives can eliminate some of the supposed "problems" which people simply love pointing out.
Raven wrote:Yes, and we've been lagging way behind America and Europe for years, but where they go, we'll follow - we have to. As your clip says, a fast broadband connection is "a vital part of business these days." So this obviously has to change.
But that is the point - we are lagging behind. Not just in internet availability, but in scores of areas. Things which Britain used to lead the world in have been abandoned, or neglected, or - in the case of manufacturing - nearly completely dismantled. We shouldn't be playing catch-up, we should be pioneering. Remember the early days of Vertigo? That was British talent. If things had gone differently, the majority of what was published could have easily been produced in the UK. When I pointed out that chances aren't being taken, that is precisely what I am getting at.

Weekly comics: When was the last time something in 2000 A.D. actually had an impact beyond "gee, that was kinda neat" and meant something. Something important. The Beano, which is largely constrained by audience, still has room to grow into a title that is unmissable.

Away from the weeklies, when was the last time that Viz ran anything that made people stop and think "can you really publish that?" as was the reaction for some of the earlier material. When I say all this, it is from a position of frustration that chances are being missed, and opportunities not taken. The phrase "go big, or go home" comes to mind. It has become a rarity for things (anything - from comics, through film, television, literature...) to attempt to do anything which challenges, engages and expands beyond expectations.
Raven wrote:But you go on to write about artistic high points in the form of experimental new directions, which is a separate thing from something regaining its foothold as a highly popular mass market medium, isn't it?
Nope. It is all tied in. I use the phrase "everything is connected" perhaps too much, but it is. You get the critical attention, and press exposure, from aiming high. Look at the reaction in The New York Times to a number of graphic novels - can you imagine anything on the stands at the moment being treated in any other way but contempt by those same critics? That's the point I was making about the branding on related products - if something is hidden away in the racks at Tesco or wherever (or worse, being stocked solely in a comic book shop, with all of the connotations in polite society that carries) how do you expect people to know a title is still being sold?

Here's something I have been trying to square away with the heavy emphasis on British product which characterizes a lot of what I write about - there are no titles in key categories that I can recommend to people. When I am asked what decent crime trades are worth spending time with, I either answer Sin City or a general "Latin American film noir graphic novels" when I should be able to reel off British titles. The ones which are out there aren't in the same league. For great SF my first instinct is always Ghost In The Shell (Kōkaku Kidōtai) - there's nothing which comes close to it being published in the UK. As for historical adventures - which used to be a massive part of the weeklies - there simply isn't the availability of the good stuff. Reprint collections seem to have worked wonders for US publishers, but there is nowhere near the same level of exploitation of intellectual properties in the UK.

A person could be forgiven for thinking that there are publishers which are embarrassed that they published comics once upon a time...

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