Rebellion acquire Egmont's archive of strips and characters

[koollectablz]

I think you mean Drif's guide to bookshops. I still have a copy knocking around somewhere.

As to car boot selling, I always took it as that you can sell on any second hands goods that you want to without having to bother the taxman... Under the proviso that it's just something you no longer want and that you haven't bought it to deliberately resell at a profit.

I mean, gosh, the revenue have already taken a healthy tax chunk out of the item the first time it sold when new, bit much to keep on taking bite after bite in my opinion.

Sure there's a grey area when you're buying items for your personal collection that you know you'll probably sell again 'at some point in the future', but I think it's common sense to see what's deliberate tax avoidance and what's just a hobby to make a bit of money to keep the nippers in ice cream.

It's the pirate DVDs that annoy me... But that's for a different forum.

[Phoenix]

I think you mean Drif's guide to bookshops.

Yes, that's the guy, Drif Field. I've just Googled him, and I do have the issue of his 1991/92 guide that is displayed there, but somewhere I also have an earlier one which had a partially-coloured front cover. They served me well. The secondhand bookshop in Archway that I went to with my son was called Ripping Yarns.

[Adam Eterno]

But then I thought to myself, if I buy them, there's a fair chance he's not going to declare the takings on his tax return and would I want to break the law by being an accessory and encouraging tax evasion. I'm sure that would have been the case had I bought some of his comics, believing that that he might evade tax, but I can run it by an acquaintance who's an advocate solicitor, just to be sure. Part of the black economy is to be found at car boot sales, comic marts, the Barras etc. where as many of us know, some of the dealers at these places don't register sales and don't declare them to HMRC, making the buyer complicit if he/she believes evasion might take place. Only a small, unimportant thing I'm sure. But feel free to criticise me for bringing such a small matter up.

Paw, as John McEnroe was famous for saying to line judges and referees, You cannot be serious. These are car boot sales you are talking about. I can't imagine any seller giving even a passing thought to declaring their income that day to HMRC. They are by and large trying to sell a few of their own items from a stall they have brought with them in order to make a few bob from items they no longer want. If the sun is shining their experience will be that much more pleasant. I grant you that sometimes there are stallholders selling specific items such as LPs or CDs, and there is the occasional dealer who turns up in a big lorry, but these are definitely exceptions. The vast majority of buyers are simply looking for a few items that take their fancy. It's a morning out, a burger, an ice cream, a chat with someone you haven't seen for ages, and if the sellers go home with fewer items and more money than they brought out with them, it will have been a successful outing.

I have to agree wholeheartedly with Phoenix and Mr McEnroe!

[starscape]

I think you have all misunderstood Paw. He is saying 'When is something technically illegal but acceptable?'. Is selling at car boots whilst not declaring it okay whilst distributing unavailable material where the publisher has no interest in it, isn't? Neither makes a fortune (indeed, most scanning of archive is completely free and costs the scanner comics and time). Where does the line get drawn?*

*(which is probably rhetorical)

[big bad bri]

Didn't Alan Austin have a shop near Highbury and Islington station? Or is that a completely different part of London?. .

yea there was definitely a comic shop near highbury islington stn in the early 80s called heroes as i must have bunked off school a lot and my 12 years old self used to go west end of london by himself for all the comic shops down there too.some of my comics i bought at bookpalace still have 15p heroes price stickers which im too scared to remove for fear of damaging comics.

[koollectablz]

I think you have all misunderstood Paw. He is saying 'When is something technically illegal but acceptable?'. Is selling at car boots whilst not declaring it okay whilst distributing unavailable material where the publisher has no interest in it, isn't? Neither makes a fortune (indeed, most scanning of archive is completely free and costs the scanner comics and time). Where does the line get drawn?*

*(which is probably rhetorical)

Ah well, therein lies the rub.

It matters not that the publisher has an interest in it or not. The point is they are selling copyrighted material. It has never ever been theirs to sell.

They didnt own it in the past, it doesn't belong to them right now, and it won't belong to them in the future.

At least at a car boot, you are selling something that you yourself paid for, it belongs to you at the point of sale.

Most of the time the people selling it have just downloaded it from the internet, packaged it onto disks and then just list it on eBay. They didn't even scan it in the first place.

[starscape]

...whereas the car boot seller is stealing money from the population by not declaring it. I'm sure it must run into millions a year when combined. Think of the hospitals rather than a company! It's not the car boot sellers power to decide to pay taxes or not.

Not that I'm actually having a go at car boot sellers.

They're both illegal practices. But also both where the dividing line between technically illegal but acceptable have their arguments. I deemed it rhetorical as it's probably a matter of morality. Even in scanning. Some say 15 years. Some say public domain. Some are more nuanced as to likelihood of reprinting. Others think lo-res scans or covers are fine. None are legal (even 'for the purposes of review' is not as spelled out here as it is in the US). But are they all wrong?

Just like selling on the black market, it's not that easy a dividing line between what is acceptable and what isn't. We could argue all day but I don't think many minds will change.

[Phoenix]

I'm sure that many of our members sell items at car boot sales and/or on eBay from time to time. Apart from Paw, could any of you who do declare such unearned income on your tax returns please step up to the plate and make a public confession.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

The black market is still pumping money into the economy, ---as long as it is not going to fund serious crime which really does harm people [like hard drugs] it is not really a serious problem.

I doubt very much if the money from scanning comics is going straight into the Mafias' pockets for example : folk like that get their money through other more lucrative means---the likes of scanning is more of a 'cottage industry' in all liklihood. I doubt if many are getting seriously rich through it.

Or at least, if anyone is, this has never come to light as yet.Just not enough serious money to made in such a niche outlook....compared to other illegal activities, the profit margins are very low and not nearly enough to attract serious crime barons.

The State itself wastes a fortune down the drain every single day....an even bigger crime I dare say.

I am not saying that anyone should scan comics illegally---I am just saying that copying banknotes-----a very similar practice at the core, both involve laser copiers------- [in order to pass the copies off as legal tender] is a far more serious crime, both legally and morally.

[koollectablz]

It's not illegal to sell your own items at a car boot.

The guidelines as to whether you're trading and therefore should fill in a self assessment form are thus:

What counts as trading

You’re likely to be trading if you:

sell regularly to make a profit
make items to sell for profit
sell online, at car boot sales or through classified adverts on a regular basis
earn commission from selling goods for other people
are paid for a service you provide

What doesn’t count as trading

You’re probably not trading if you sell some unwanted items occasionally or you don’t plan to make a profit. You can’t use any losses you make as part of a hobby to reduce your tax bill.

[starscape]

This isn't about car boot sales but nuances in the law. But did you read what you quoted?

You’re likely to be trading if you:

sell regularly to make a profit
make items to sell for profit
sell online, at car boot sales or through classified adverts on a regular basis
earn commission from selling goods for other people
are paid for a service you provide

[comixminx]

This isn't about car boot sales but nuances in the law. But did you read what you quoted?

You’re likely to be trading if you:

sell regularly to make a profit
make items to sell for profit
sell online, at car boot sales or through classified adverts on a regular basis
earn commission from selling goods for other people
are paid for a service you provide

Think the important bit in the quote is 'on a regular basis', not the car boot sale bit.

[Phoenix]

Part of the black economy is to be found at car boot sales, comic marts, the Barras etc. where as many of us know, some of the dealers at these places don't register sales and don't declare them to HMRC, making the buyer complicit if he/she believes evasion might take place.

You have sometimes mentioned, Paw, that you have been to comic fairs in your neck of the woods, meeting up occasionally with Colin. Have you ever felt unable to buy a nice item, whether cheap or expensive, simply because you feel that the dealer/seller might not be declaring his profits on his tax return?

[starscape]

This isn't about car boot sales but nuances in the law. But did you read what you quoted?

You’re likely to be trading if you:

sell regularly to make a profit
make items to sell for profit
sell online, at car boot sales or through classified adverts on a regular basis
earn commission from selling goods for other people
are paid for a service you provide

Think the important bit in the quote is 'on a regular basis', not the car boot sale bit.

So, is the seller Paw was thinking of buying from at a car boot sale selling them regularly or not? One's legal. One's not. Both are car boot sales, so saying selling at car boot sales and not declaring it is legal, cannot be taken as read. You don't know whether Paw's seller was a regular, partly because you were not there and mostly because it was obviously an analogy.

This conversation is not about car boot sales. If you think it is, you have my sympathy and a recommendation to study critical analysis.

[colcool007]

Wow! This thread is going all over the place and that's what we love to see here on Comics UK.

First off, can we address the issue of car boot sellers? There are traders, regular car booters and the occasional sellers. If you go to a specific car boot, you usually learn the difference quite rapidly. If you go to different ones all the times, you can usually make a guess as to which is which but the traders are the easiest ones to spot and you can sometimes get a deal from them when they have bought something they can't shift for love nor money! Like a box of Look And Learn, Treasure and World of Wonder for almost cover price!

As to any of them declaring their income to HMRC, that is down to the individual and if you have issues with scanning then you will also have issues with anyone selling stuff on the black economy be it a car boot, Ebay or Amazon as both are covered under the same legislation. It would be like writing a book and not declaring any income from direct sales.

Second up comic shops in London. There is a great second hand shop on the Archway Road just before Highgate Tube Station with a great choice of comics but their prices were on the side of profiteering for my take.

And then we have fatcat comic sellers, there is a simple solution in one word BUDGET. If you can't afford the comic, then don't buy it. If you think it is too high a price for your tastes, then don't buy it. If you don't have the money to afford it, it means don't buy it. There are so many comics and books out there that I want but if they are outside my price radar then I just don't buy them and wait until they get inside my affordability range.

It can be frustrating, but oh so rewarding when you get that magic deal. Like my copy of Action: A Story of A Violent Comic for less than £30 or my Red Lion library: The Truth About Wilson for less than £20.

And going back to the original post of this thread, I am really hoping that this means that we will get a proper ending to some of the interrupted stories from Action. To see what I mean have a look at my The Kids Are Alright post.