Authorship in girls and boys comics

[comixminx]

Hi all, not sure if this is the right part of the forum to post it in, and apologies if not - it could have gone in the Writers and Artists bit, but it felt a bit more general than that...

It's a truism that in comics there have traditionally not been printed credits that give the names of the writers and artists involved (with certain exceptions). There are even stories of artist signatures being painted out by the in house staff (though I know that in my collection of IPC girls' comics I have spotted quite a few artist signatures, so it can't have been a universal principle followed by all). My questions are:
* what counter-examples can you think of, where credits were printed in the comics themselves? I know this happend in Girl in the 50s or 60s, and in Tammy in the mid-80s, and in 2000AD of course. Where else?
* have you seen anything that indicates that the readers themselves would have liked to see information about the names of the creators? for instance letters in the comic that asked about the creators, or commented on 'good artists' or similar. I do know of some examples in girls comics (which I will try to do a followup comment on) of readers clearly being aware of the fact that comics weren't just churned out by robots, but I would be interested in any other examples that people can think of.

In the modern era the expectation very much is that the creator will be credited - the Phoenix wouldn't dream of doing otherwise, for instance - but even in days gone by, the US comics publishers printed credits as a general principle as far as I know. Why was the UK system different? Or was it mostly IPC and DCT that were not keen on giving credit, maybe other publishers that I know less well were happier to print this information?

[starscape]

I know John Sanders said credits were kept off to stop their creators being poached. He also blamed the collapse of UK comics on the US hiving off the cream of Britain's talent after the credits were revealed, leaving largely sub-standard creators (in his opinion) to carryon in the UK.

[paw broon]

Credits in British comics were a hit and miss affair, but they were there in many titles. Even DCT permitted DDW to have his name on strips. Other well known examples incl. Alfred Bestall on Rupert - strip and annuals. And, of course, his successors on the strip have their signatures attached.
I've had a quick look at some other titles and nowadays lesser know publishers allowed signed work. Swan comics featured a number of creator signatures, probably the most famous being Bang - for Harry Banger. Basil Reynolds and Hugh White signed work for Algar Printing Co. titles.
Mick Anglo's name appeared on Captain Valiant for Arnold Book Co. and on other strips for other titles, incl. the Gower St. Studios credit on filler pages.
Dennis M. Reader signed a lot of his work - Acromaid for Cartoon Art Publications being one example.
Rex Hart's name appeared on some back up strips in Foldes Press Super Thriller but, oddly, not on the Ace Hart strips he drew in the same title. I think but I'm not 100% sure of that. Can anyone offer further info.?
Bob Wilkin signed all his strips for Fudge & Co. & Hotspur Publishing titles.
Going back to G.G. Swan comics, the strips weren't signed with full names, rather they appeared as "Bang", Hep" "Robbie" etc.
Denis Gifford signed a lot of his work for a number of companies.
Alan Fraser signed all his strips for Soloway titles. And Joe Colquhoun's name appears on the Masterman comics.

As for American comics, credits weren't universal and sometimes pen names were used.

[comixminx]

Can't say that sounds like a very convincing argument, Starscape! They had credits in earlier comics (as I say, Girl in the 50s or 60s) and also it was pretty much only 2000AD that regularly ran credits, wasn't it? So the collapse of the rest of the market was surely down to something else.

Not that there wasn't quite a flight of talent from 2000AD to the US, mind you - but how does that explain the collapse of the girls market and the rest of it. Plus there were still lots of Spanish artists that didn't take part in that same exodus! Personally I think the collapse of the market is much more down to management decisions.

[comixminx]

Credits in British comics were a hit and miss affair, but they were there in many titles. Even DCT permitted DDW to have his name on strips. Other well known examples incl. Alfred Bestall on Rupert - strip and annuals. And, of course, his successors on the strip have their signatures attached.
I've had a quick look at some other titles and nowadays lesser know publishers allowed signed work. Swan comics featured a number of creator signatures, probably the most famous being Bang - for Harry Banger. Basil Reynolds and Hugh White signed work for Algar Printing Co. titles.
Mick Anglo's name appeared on Captain Valiant for Arnold Book Co. and on other strips for other titles, incl. the Gower St. Studios credit on filler pages.
Dennis M. Reader signed a lot of his work - Acromaid for Cartoon Art Publications being one example.
Rex Hart's name appeared on some back up strips in Foldes Press Super Thriller but, oddly, not on the Ace Hart strips he drew in the same title. I think but I'm not 100% sure of that. Can anyone offer further info.?
Bob Wilkin signed all his strips for Fudge & Co. & Hotspur Publishing titles.
Going back to G.G. Swan comics, the strips weren't signed with full names, rather they appeared as "Bang", Hep" "Robbie" etc.
Denis Gifford signed a lot of his work for a number of companies.
Alan Fraser signed all his strips for Soloway titles. And Joe Colquhoun's name appears on the Masterman comics.

As for American comics, credits weren't universal and sometimes pen names were used.

Oh thanks, Paw. So artists ran a reasonable chance of having their work at least signed if not credited.

Yes, I agree that in American comics the credits weren't universal but they seemed to be much more a normal part of proceedings. And the only way for writers to get their name known I guess!

[paw broon]

Not only 2000AD. Eagle credited some of the creators, Frank Hampson , Alan Stranks, John Worsley among others . Countdown credited artists. Arthur Ransom signed his Sapphire and Steele strips in Look-In. And Mike Noble's name appears on some of the Timeslip strips.

[comixminx]

Not only 2000AD. Eagle credited some of the creators, Frank Hampson , Alan Stranks, John Worsley among others . Countdown credited artists. Arthur Ransom signed his Sapphire and Steele strips in Look-In. And Mike Noble's name appears on some of the Timeslip strips.

I can't quite tell from the above because I don't know the strips very well, but were writers credited too, or only sometimes?

[Lew Stringer]

Yes, Eagle credited writers and artists when it was published by Hulton in the 1950s. Look-In didn't credit writers unfortunately.

As far as credits in other comics go, Polystyle's Countdown (later TV Action) ran artist credits on every strip back in 1971/72. Not writer credits though.

Fleetway and IPC had a few exceptions to their rule. The Sporty strip in Knockout (and later in Valiant) carried the credit "by Reg Wooton" after the logo. Towards the end of its run in 1973/1974, Lion ran a writer/artist credit for its Spellbinder strip. There were probably others on other comics too no doubt.

As for signatures, it was mainly Amalgamated Press/Fleetway and D.C. Thomson who forbade it. Polystyle's TV Comic often had signatures of artists, as did Odhams' Wham!, Smash!, and Pow! Those Odhams comics also revealed some of the writer's names in their news column and letters pages, as readers seemed keen to know who'd done what. (Oddly enough, when those same comics reprinted the Marvel strips, they deleted the credit boxes on those stories.)

Thing is, as I've said before, even when the anonymity "rule" was relaxed in the 1980s, some of the older artists at IPC and Thomsons still declined to sign their work. Perhaps through modesty, perhaps through decades of being conditioned not to. A great pity.

[comixminx]

Yes, Eagle credited writers and artists when it was published by Hulton in the 1950s. Look-In didn't credit writers unfortunately.

As far as credits in other comics go, Polystyle's Countdown (later TV Action) ran artist credits on every strip back in 1971/72. Not writer credits though.

Fleetway and IPC had a few exceptions to their rule. The Sporty strip in Knockout (and later in Valiant) carried the credit "by Reg Wooton" after the logo. Towards the end of its run in 1973/1974, Lion ran a writer/artist credit for its Spellbinder strip. There were probably others on other comics too no doubt.

As for signatures, it was mainly Amalgamated Press/Fleetway and D.C. Thomson who forbade it. Polystyle's TV Comic often had signatures of artists, as did Odhams' Wham!, Smash!, and Pow! Those Odhams comics also revealed some of the writer's names in their news column and letters pages, as readers seemed keen to know who'd done what. (Oddly enough, when those same comics reprinted the Marvel strips, they deleted the credit boxes on those stories.)

Thing is, as I've said before, even when the anonymity "rule" was relaxed in the 1980s, some of the older artists at IPC and Thomsons still declined to sign their work. Perhaps through modesty, perhaps through decades of being conditioned not to. A great pity.

A great pity indeed. But it is odd that the girls comics I read - IPC rather that Fleetway mind you - had quite a few signatures visible over the years. I wonder if there was any difference between the girls and boys areas on this topic?

[Lew Stringer]

A great pity indeed. But it is odd that the girls comics I read - IPC rather that Fleetway mind you - had quite a few signatures visible over the years. I wonder if there was any difference between the girls and boys areas on this topic?

It might have been down to the group editors, rather than a publisher's policy, so perhaps the girls comics had a group editor with more foresight?

It'd also be up to individual editors I guess. For example, even when 2000AD and Battle were running full credit boxes, Tiger never followed suit.

[colcool007]

And even when work was signed, sub-editors spent many an hour whiting out those signatures. One of the few to get through was a cheeky Alonso on one of the Victor covers from the mid 1960s.

[philcom55]

It's noticeable that the credits in Girl and Eagle both vanished when they became part of the growing Fleetway/IPC group. For many years in Britain and America there was a strong feeling amongst most of the major publishers that artists and writers would get too big for their boots if readers began to associate them with a particular character (as was commonly the case with newspaper strips) - thus when Odhams poached Leo Baxendale and Ken Reid, DC Thomson were able to assign new artists to mimic their styles on series they'd originated so that few people noticed the difference.

[paw broon]

Just to go back to American comics for a moment. When credits did appear in American comics, they were sometimes pseudonyms or anagrams of the creator's name, or house names. A couple of quick examples. Will Eisner can be be found as Willis Resnie. And Quality Comics (a company whose products reflected their logo) used house names. e. g. Lou Fine was credited as E. Lectron on many of his "The Ray" strips. But often companies such as DC/National credited, or left a signature in, in some stories in an issue, while other stories had no credits. I've been reading some issues of Leading Comics and this practice is evident there. Early 1940's by the way.

[philcom55]

Yes. It's worth noting that British and American artists often chose to hide their real identity - as when Carmine Infantino signed himself as 'Cinfa' or 'Rouge Infant' and when June Mendoza used the byline Chris Garvey. And of course 'Stan Lee' and 'Jack Kirby' were really Stanley Leiber and Jacob Kurtzberg. The fact is that a lot of them were reluctant to be associated with a profession that was so widely reviled (especially during the 'Horror Comic' hysteria of the 1950s).

[comixminx]

Thanks all, this is much appreciated. It gives a broader context than I'd have been able to come up with by myself, for sure! I might put some of this on the Jinty blog, or alternatively there is a Call for Papers that was mentioned on Down the Tubes (http://downthetubes.net/?p=36312) if I stir my stumps - either way with credit for the folks on here of course, and additional stuff too! Not wanting anyone to think that I got you to write me homework for me ya know