Is Dennis a Bully?

[Digifiend]

Funnily enough, even though characters like Dennis and the Bash Street Kids passed totally under the radar during the 1950s backlash against comics in this country, I suspect that in America they would have been seen as wholly anathema by the notorious Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquency. This was brought home to me last weekend when I picked up this oversize album from the early 1960s featuring the US version of Dennis the Menace (curiously renamed over here as 'Just Dennis: The Pickle'):

The book was called Just Dennis because the 1950s TV show was also renamed as such. Presumably, unable to use the name Dennis the Menace due to the Beano character, they decided to homage Just William instead. Dennis the Pickle is an alternate name apparently, probably used on the comic strip.
http://www.skooldays.com/blog/just-dennis-the-mennace/

The second Red Kite TV series is the reason why. I think the easiest interpretation is that Dennis's Dad is 1980s Dennis, ditto Minnie and Roger (as drawn by Barrie)

Doesn't really work with Minnie. Her Mum looks nothing like her, it's her dad who shares her ginger hair. Dennis's Mum looks more like Minnie!

[dandy mad]

Funnily enough, even though characters like Dennis and the Bash Street Kids passed totally under the radar during the 1950s backlash against comics in this country, I suspect that in America they would have been seen as wholly anathema by the notorious Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquency. This was brought home to me last weekend when I picked up this oversize album from the early 1960s featuring the US version of Dennis the Menace (curiously renamed over here as 'Just Dennis: The Pickle'):

The book was called Just Dennis because the 1950s TV show was also renamed as such. Presumably, unable to use the name Dennis the Menace due to the Beano character, they decided to homage Just William instead. Dennis the Pickle is an alternate name apparently, probably used on the comic strip.
http://www.skooldays.com/blog/just-dennis-the-mennace/

In the article it says the Beano Dennis has curly black hair....

[Lew Stringer]

The second Red Kite TV series is the reason why. I think the easiest interpretation is that Dennis's Dad is 1980s Dennis, ditto Minnie and Roger (as drawn by Barrie)

Doesn't really work with Minnie. Her Mum looks nothing like her, it's her dad who shares her ginger hair. Dennis's Mum looks more like Minnie!

Well, if an earlier-version of Dennis grew up, perhaps Minnie did too?

[Lew Stringer]

The book was called Just Dennis because the 1950s TV show was also renamed as such. Presumably, unable to use the name Dennis the Menace due to the Beano character, they decided to homage Just William instead. Dennis the Pickle is an alternate name apparently, probably used on the comic strip.

He was just 'The Pickle' on the strip I have from 50 years ago:
http://lewstringer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/ ... -show.html

[Nigel Auchterlounie]

Hi. I won't do the thing were I quote and answer. I'll just answer a couple of points that jumped out.

These days he's not a bully, though perhaps he was in the past.
Or was that his Dad or Grand dad?
I'd like to think that he's a bit more 3 dimensional than he was. Characters in all mediums were less complicated than they are now.

Dennis is comfortable with violence. But I try where I can to make any violence a retaliation to something else.

I doubt that anyone would read the current Beano and think "I'm like Walter. They're being bad to him like the kids in my School are being bad to me." Even if the real Walter read the beano I doubt he'd recognise himself.

I took over writing Dennis after the Dad revamp. I'm glad he was. I have no idea how to write that old Dad.
Presented with Old Dennis and old Dad today in the real world people might say "Have you seen the way Dennis's dad goes on with him? No wonder Dennis is turning into such a bully. It's like a cycle of violence, why doesn't the mother leave him or something?"

I've never been told to tone anything down or not do anything.
A change in the way Dennis is may be more down to a change in how writers (people) are.

[dandy mad]

Hi. I won't do the thing were I quote and answer. I'll just answer a couple of points that jumped out.

These days he's not a bully, though perhaps he was in the past.
Or was that his Dad or Grand dad?
I'd like to think that he's a bit more 3 dimensional than he was. Characters in all mediums were less complicated than they are now.

Dennis is comfortable with violence. But I try where I can to make any violence a retaliation to something else.

I doubt that anyone would read the current Beano and think "I'm like Walter. They're being bad to him like the kids in my School are being bad to me." Even if the real Walter read the beano I doubt he'd recognise himself.



I took over writing Dennis after the Dad revamp. I'm glad he was. I have no idea how to write that old Dad.
Presented with Old Dennis and old Dad today in the real world people might say "Have you seen the way Dennis's dad goes on with him? No wonder Dennis is turning into such a bully. It's like a cycle of violence, why doesn't the mother leave him or something?"

I've never been told to tone anything down or not do anything.
A change in the way Dennis is may be more down to a change in how writers (people) are.

What is the feedback like for the Dennis strip in its current form? Is it overwhelmingly positive or a more balanced view?

[Lew Stringer]

Walter's personality has been changed in recent years, making him sly and devious. He's not the innocent he used to be.

That's true. The trouble is that it's like justifying anti-semitism by portraying Jews as stereotypically sly and devious!

- Phil Rushton

Sorry for the delayed reply to this comment. I've only just noticed it.

I don't think you can compare the Walter situation to the portrayal of anti-semitism at all. There's no similarity because there's no sinister agenda behind the Dennis stories as there was with Nazi propaganda. It's not trying to turn readers against a type of person. It just makes sense for Dennis' nemesis to be his opposite (eg: scholarly and neat). It is what it is: a fun comic strip for kids.

[Nigel Auchterlounie]

What is the feedback like for the Dennis strip in its current form? Is it overwhelmingly positive or a more balanced view?

Mostly positive.

[TwoHeadedBoy]

Dennis is definitely better now than what he was a few years ago (Dennis & Gnasher, based on your favourite TV cartoon!).

There's a fair bit of dimension to the earlier Dennis too - Walter was frequently shown to have friends whilst Dennis was watching on, and attempting to sabotage their fun - sometimes Dennis's Dad would point to Walter as an example of how Dennis "should" be. Sometimes Walter was shown to be part of Dennis's gang too. So there's Dennis as your lonely outcast, retaliating the only way he knows how (violence and mayhem), and there's Walter who behaves himself and so has a better social life because of it.

I'd prefer to just have a laugh at the chaos and destruction he causes rather than look into the "messages" behind it all though!

[DavidKW]

Is quite a debate here:

When DCT started Dennis they always kept to their policy of being a moral comic: so Dennis was a rebel kids would like to be but it showed there were consequences for kids for unruly behaviours.

I can remember seeing the Christmas Beano strips last year; in a 12 days of Christmas one he ends up with a slippering, but in the Walet The Red Nosed Softy one he avoids punishment but humiliates Walter a lot (perhaps he'd been punished all year so for an Xmas treat). But this one could make Dennis appear a bully (when this one was published in 1987-88, the press finally began to realise & pick up on the true horrors of school & work bullying).

I guess to keep making Dennis a loveable rogue and not a bully, he has to keep evolving, even if many purists & traditionalists (esp those who think the smacking ban & pc-ness has killed the humour) don't like it.

[DavidKW]

Speaking of BUgs Bunny & Tom & Jerry mentioned at the start- htey've both had bullying accusations.

Bugs was called a bully by viewers when in his early cartoons he attacked & humiliated Elmer Fudd for no reason. So, they set the rule that Bugs could only do this if Elmer was hunting & going to kill hi. But Fritz still thought BUgs a bully, as Elmer was sweet & simple and dumb in a way, so that prompted him to create Yosemite Sam who was just unlikable & bad tempered, so you'd cheer for Bugs.

As for Tom & Jerry, when MGM first revived the cartoon in 1959/60, they were drawn by Czech Gene Deitch (as Hanna & Barbara had moved on & busy elsewhere). The Deitch cartoons are thoroughly disliked as they often have Jerry attack Tom for no reason, ie Tom is not going to attack or eat Jerry he's minding his own business but Jerry still attacks (and gets Tom into trouble with a nasty bad tempered fat man).
Wonder if the idea for Itchy & Scratchy came from these? Deithch's animation style all wrong for T&J too.

[Tin Can Tommy]

Itchy and Scratchy were inspired by a cartoon called Herman and Katnip. It was very similar to Tom and Jerry but the mouse always won regardless of whether he started the fighting.

[Old Freddy]

When reading through older Dennis strips from the 1960s and early 1970s, it seems to me that Dennis disliked Walter because he was a bit spoilt, sneaky and snobby and always sucked up to adults, and Dennis was always being told by his parents/teacher to be more like Walter.

Sometime in the 1970s, probably around the time Pie Face and Bertie Blenkinsop were introduced, Dennis seemed to evolve into a Bully who simply picked on Walter because he was an easy target who had been flanderised into a campy, over-sensitive character who could probably get knocked over by a gentle breeze. If there was one good thing that came out of the 2009 cartoon, it was that Walter became more of a worthy foil for Dennis, though I feel that this was overdone initially. Nowadays, I think the personae of Dennis and Walter are the best they've been since the mid seventies.

[Phoenix]

flanderised

What on earth does that mean? The verb certainly doesn't feature in any of my dictionaries.

[-MikeD-]

flanderised

What on earth does that mean? The verb certainly doesn't feature in any of my dictionaries.

It's time you figured out how to use Google, Phoenix... its 2014!