comics on c-d rom

[Raven]

Seemed to be the Welcome page I landed on, which doesn't link to that homepage, and there was nothing about getting the approval on the 'Website History' link.

[paw broon]

"The "problem" is that two wrongs don't make a right.

Reading through these posts it becomes obvious that the excuse of "we must preserve these comics for future generations" is pretty weak. What is boils down to is most of those defending the illegal discs and downloads just want the comics for themselves. They want something for nothing (or near as damn it), with a massive sense of entitlement that they should have it just because they want it, and the law can go to hell. "Breaking the law is the only way I'll get to read them" they plead, as though owning a run of Captain Hurricane is as necessary as food and water." Lew Stringer.

The point I was trying to make - and I seem to have been misunderstood again - lots of misunderstandings going on recently, is that the organisers don't appear to care if pirated stuff is sold at their cons and that could be because of the money they receive from dealers booking tables. It is not right and I think organisers and folk who run The Barras, for instance, should be more rigorous in checking what is for sale. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the Sun publishing those pics as an example as they are not illegal. However the organisers of marts and markets etc. seem to feel that if something is done elsewhere, whether right or wrong, then they have to do it, or allow it, in order to keep the money coming in. As an aside, I overheard a comment from a dealer that the cd-roms are ordered and brought in from America so I assume the packages are being wrongly described on the customs declaration. I am bracing myself to be misunderstood again.

[stevezodiac]

The move marts I used to go to at the Central Hall Westminster banned sellers from selling pirated films and tv box sets - but they are still on sale at the comic fairs.

[Lew Stringer]

"The "problem" is that two wrongs don't make a right.

Reading through these posts it becomes obvious that the excuse of "we must preserve these comics for future generations" is pretty weak. What is boils down to is most of those defending the illegal discs and downloads just want the comics for themselves. They want something for nothing (or near as damn it), with a massive sense of entitlement that they should have it just because they want it, and the law can go to hell. "Breaking the law is the only way I'll get to read them" they plead, as though owning a run of Captain Hurricane is as necessary as food and water." Lew Stringer.

The point I was trying to make - and I seem to have been misunderstood again - lots of misunderstandings going on recently, is that the organisers don't appear to care if pirated stuff is sold at their cons and that could be because of the money they receive from dealers booking tables. It is not right and I think organisers and folk who run The Barras, for instance, should be more rigorous in checking what is for sale. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the Sun publishing those pics as an example as they are not illegal. However the organisers of marts and markets etc. seem to feel that if something is done elsewhere, whether right or wrong, then they have to do it, or allow it, in order to keep the money coming in. As an aside, I overheard a comment from a dealer that the cd-roms are ordered and brought in from America so I assume the packages are being wrongly described on the customs declaration. I am bracing myself to be misunderstood again.

I didn't misunderstand you. The first sentence was a reply to your "What's the problem" question. (And in the case of mart organizers allowing bootleggers to trade just because other marts do it, two wrongs don't make a right, as I said.)

The other paragraph was a general comment about this topic.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

I'm glad to see that a least a few official dvd-rom collections appear to be in the pipeline, or at least are under consideration.

Hopefully the first of these will sell enough to encourage more and it will take off in a big enough way, it would help to make up for all these dwindling paper comic sales.


Nobody on here has ever claimed that illegal discs are to be reccomended, only that it's inevitable they will spring up and multiply soley because there seems to be a demand for them: a bit like Radio One being created in response to the success of the offshore pirate radio stations of the 60s--------well, these stations were illegal to be sure, but they were popular and they were a lot less safer than wholly legal practices like Nuclear Power Stations or declaring War on other Nations [both of which were, and probably still are, entirely legal!]






Most of us would prefer to buy properly-sanctioned dvd-roms [I myself have stated this at least twice early on in this thread, citing two seperate 'fantasy wishes' I would love to see available for sale as examples, they're just not for sale [legally]
.anywhere at the moment.


EDIT: Colcool: yes, the ACTION 'sevenpenny nightmare' site is an absolute specialist comics beaut, one of the best and most comprehensive anywhere on the web I reckon, they even seem to use scans derived from the original artwork in some cases!


Cannily, whoever owns the site has ensured the images can't be 'swiped'. Although I appreciate sites such as these [which seem to display EVERYTHING, or pretty near it on their subject], I still personally prefer owning the actual comics or a dvd, as you never can tell if the plug will be pulled on some of this sites----although sevenpenny nightmare has ran for years.

[Lew Stringer]

Nobody on here has ever claimed that illegal discs are to be reccomended,

Except for the (now deleted) links that you provided, and statement that you'd purchased them, which could be taken as recommendation.

Most of us would prefer to buy properly-sanctioned dvd-roms [I myself have stated this at least twice early on in this thread, citing two seperate 'fantasy wishes' I would love to see available for sale as examples, they're just not for sale [legally] .anywhere at the moment.

Fair enough Rab. I think we're all repeating ourselves now. I understand what you and others have said but I'll say once again though (finally I hope) that just because you want something doesn't mean you're entitled to it. I just think it's a shame that so many members of this forum appear to think that copyright theft is so unimportant.

A "victimless crime" people say, reassuring themselves that they're doing no harm. Truth is, it's the thin end of the wedge isn't it? As we've seen from stateside operations downloads of classic material soon inspires pirates to make current material available too, and hang the consequences. A few thousand illegal downloads of a comic can spell death to a comic that's already teetering on closure. That means it's not just some fictitious character that ceases, it's the creators losing income. I know most people here wouldn't download current comics, but some would, and do, as I know from discussions on other forums.

But it's the principle that's the main issue. If people don't get that, then there's nothing more I can add.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

These are fair points you are making, Lew: at the time I put on the links to e-bay [those removed] , I actually thought that some of these DVDs were out there because old IPC titles especially are in such a disorganized state legally, it was OK for the moment for 'entrepeneurs' to put out unofficial versions: now of course, I do know a lot better, thanks to the details on this thread.


At the risk of NOT repeating myself, here's something the comics rights holders could take on board if they are considering releasing material;



It might be wise if they put out material the pirates can't compete with: ie some scans lifted directly from the comics inkings, so buyers could zoom in and see the work in hyper-detail........not practical for a full disc of scans, but even if they added a few of such scans, this would give the legit companies an advantage over 'other copiers' who normally can't do this-------this would also be an advantage over even of paper comics. Any other 'exclusives' along this line would likely be welcomed by comics fans, and encourage them to ditch their dodgy copies.

People will always pay out extra for quality---at least real enthusiasts will. Remember that NOSFERATU film I mentioned on here last week? Well I could watch it 'free' on youtube, but I prefer the proper DVD so I can see it larger, so I've just sent off to Amazon for it [to cite one example].


I have a home-made copy of WHEN DINOSAURS RULED THE EARTH lifted direct from youtube, as this film has never been widely available officially for fans....even the youtube version is gone now, maybe that's why these dvd-roms seem to be selling well, people are striking while the iron is still hot.

[Tin Can Tommy]

Nobody on here has ever claimed that illegal discs are to be reccomended, only that it's inevitable they will spring up and multiply soley because there seems to be a demand for them: a bit like Radio One being created in response to the success of the offshore pirate radio stations of the 60s--------well, these stations were illegal to be sure, but they were popular and they were a lot less safer than wholly legal practices like Nuclear Power Stations or declaring War on other Nations [both of which were, and probably still are, entirely legal!]

Nuclear Power Stations aren't particularly unsafe. People only think they are because of what they've seen in fiction and a couple of disasters due to government incompetence (eg Chernobyl) or a natural disaster (that Japanese one) both of which pale in comparison to other non-nuclear disasters. I just looked online and according to one source I found there is less deaths per energy generated for Nuclear Power than most other energy sources. Sorry for being off topic but your belief that nuclear power is unsafe annoyed me because it's just false.

[dandy mad]

Wouldn't like to be near one when goes BOOM

[Tin Can Tommy]

I wouldn't like to be near alot of things if they went boom

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

H'mmm.....why do they build the Nuclear Plants in sparsely-populated Scotland then, Tincan? I never heard of any in the London area [where the need for power is greater, due to the higher population!] No, the nuke power stations are deliberately constructed in Scotland or North England 'in case something goes wrong', where the 'collatteral damage' will be 'smaller!'


The same reason that Military 'planes do their manouveres over the countryside, and not highly-populated areas......the damage will not affect so many people in the immediate area if a disaster occurs.


My brother-in-Law worked at Sellafield in the 80s, and they all had to sign a' disclaimer' stating that the Military had the right to shoot them dead if they got contaminated and tried to reach the 'outside world'.... this sounds like a bad B-movie script, but it's true--------at one time the Irish Sea was probably the most radioactive strip of water in the world, due to the radioactive sludge dumped in there from Sellafield, there was a ban on eating fish from there for a long time.



[yes it's all very off-topic]

[starscape]

That's a pretty simplistic view of safety. I don't want to bother going more into this but you have to measure up many more risks, both for and against (longevity, climate change, incidence radius, impact to future generations etc etc), and even then it's a disputable point. ISPYSHHHGUY's view isn't false. It's not necessarily correct either. Certainly nothing to get offended over. How about 'back to topic' before this takes over?

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

that's fine by me, readers!

[Tin Can Tommy]

Im not saying Nuclear Power is completely safe (nothing is) but an accident is very unlikely if a Nuclear Power station is managed well but if it isnt managed well then it would be disastrous hence the need for a power station to be out of the way. I just want to make the point that nuclear power stations aren't considerably more dangerous than other more common kinds of power stations if handled properly and in your comment that I quoted you seemed to demonise them and implied they were as bad as war.

This is very off topic though. If you still want to discuss this we should make a thread in the non-comics discussion section.

[-MikeD-]

The old ways of doing things are not working, and the whole copyright debate is based on a very Nineteenth Century paradigm. Where once we had a 'read' culture we now have a vibrant 'read/write' culture and this changes the way we should view copyright.

The moral rights of an artist are still as well defined as they ever were, but applying the old copyright laws to non-commercial sharing is proving to be an impossible task. There's a crowd mentality that is best summed up as 'sharing is caring' and, like all our moral codes in this Godless universe, the consensus will win in the end. Of course, this isn't necessarily a good thing, crowd thinking is sometimes subordinate to the pull of the lowest common denominator, but a shift like this can leave those occupying the high ground stranded.

Where this leaves the old publishing companies, the old distribution networks and the artists, I don't know. There will probably be a period of creative commons, a kind of cultural regurgitating of the past by the artistic equivalent of scavengers, before people realise they need professional creative people after all and we better put our heads together and figure out how we're going to pay them to perform their alchemy.

Maybe we'll see a move towards live performance, or patronage, or personalised subscription models. The details are still being worked out, but it's obvious from this thread that the change has already begun and it's irreversible.