comics on c-d rom

[Lew Stringer]

Ok Lew let me backtrack a little here, I would pay a small monthly fee to have unlimited access to such archives as im sure many others on here would.with the money going towards all the creators & artists who worked so hard on entertaining millions every week but i fear that would not make much money, But i would rather future generations get to read comics for free than for the art form to die completely as it is in danger of doing ( in this country at least) as all kids want nowdays is ipods & computer games,i would love to have the job of scanning comic archives. so maby in 50 years or when the copyright runs out & they can become public domain or whatever the correct saying is.
I would love the print on demand thing im sure i read somewhere on here where you get dct or egmont to print complete bound stories or serials or comics for you for a small fee & once they reach a certain number of orders say 75-100.

Did you follow the link I gave earlier? Egmont have already made tentative steps into making their comics available digitally for a small fee, but some people here are still choosing to support the pirates. If people aren't going to support the legitimate sources it's not worth their time to continue with it. They're a business, not a charity.

I've heard the "we must do it for the sake of future generations" type of argument before. It sounds very noble but let's be honest; the people "filesharing" or buying those illegal discs now are doing it for themselves, not for the kids of 2063. (Those CDs won't even be compatible with anything in 50 years time. Memory sticks aren't reliable either. I've had a couple of them conk out, losing tons of old artwork.)

Perhaps future generations could do what all previous comic collectors have done; buy the physical back issues and look after them? As has been discussed here before, paper is more resilient to the passage of time than some people think. Last year I bought several copies of Funny Folks from 1875, still in great shape because previous owners had looked after them properly.

[philcom55]

I could be wrong but I suspect that the spread of IPad-type platforms will lead to online libraries of virtually everything that's ever been printed before long. Of course there's a great deal of material in the public domain already, but all that's really needed to get copyright holders such as DC Thomson, Time-Life and Egmont on board is some straightforward way of charging a nominal fee every time their official database is accessed. Once this is sorted out all those cheap (and rather awkward) DVDs will probably become obsolete anyway - just like vinyl records and video cassettes.

I just wish somebody would give the original writers and artists the right to claim a residual payment for the publishers' continued use of their work beyond its initial printing.

- Phil R.

[NP]

... maby in 50 years or when the copyright runs out

The copyright on characters owned by a publisher only runs out if they don't publish anything featuring that character for 50 years. That won't happen. Copyright doesn't relate to each individual page of artwork.

...online libraries of virtually everything that's ever been printed before long.

At Colindale library once someone asked for a South African newspaper from 1855. We all watched transfixed as the attendant brought out a wrapped postal parcel and cut the string, exposing the newspapers to daylight for the first time in 150 years nearly. The pages were white and smelled of print. There will never be a time when everything is scanned in and in e form. Too much stuff has been printed.

... give the original writers and artists the right to claim a residual payment for the publishers' continued use of their work beyond its initial printing.

Nice idea but as publishers are finding it hard to continue with present day projects they're likely to resist the temptation to pay up for stuff they currently can use for free.

[NP]

Perhaps future generations could do what all previous comic collectors have done; buy the physical back issues and look after them? As has been discussed here before, paper is more resilient to the passage of time than some people think.

Yes, paper is a terrific medium to store information. I recently bought a bound volume of WHAM! which will soon be 50 years old and apart from sun discolouration at the leaf edge the pages are flat, clean, white and complete. The colours are as vibrant as they were in 1965. It's something I've long wanted, and now I've finally got it. I have drawings and comics I have made myself dating back to the same era, and they're white and clear too, I don't know where this idea that comics from the Twentieth Century are crumbling to dust comes from. The only comic I've had that was torn, yellowed and wrecked was made that way the very week I got it by the lad up the road. I never loaned to him again .

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

It's great that you have access to almost-pristine copies of WHAM!,Nigel, and many others would also enjoy such a collection such as yours: but how many collections of this calibre are in existance, and what would the cost be?
I doubt if there are enough quality survivors of the original paper issues still around to please everybody.....at an affordable price, at any rate.

This approach encourages the collecting 'mania' for elitists [in the art world] that sees paintings exchange hands for absurd prices---millions of pounds in some extreme cases. Under this outlook, many comics will remain out of range for the wider comics enthusiasts. In the USA, this approach has seen comics change prices for crazy prices, which to me is just madness.

I'm certainly not trying to accuse you of elitism, Nigel, please don't get me wrong on this, but I've always resisted this idea of a select few hanging onto 'the goods' while the majority drool into the shop window at goods they can't possibly afford in a Dandy-like fashion.

All I have on this score [Odhams comics] is a few poor-quality 60s originals, and a cd of some of these comics---far from ideal, but enough to get a flavour of how these comics looked, which is a lot better than nothing. Yes I would like a whole stack of the originals, but even if I did,the act of me obtaining lots of good copies will cause further scarcity, and push up the premium costs of these comics even further out of the reach of many comics fans.

Having said that, if someone offered me a good collection of the paper originals at a sensible price I would certainly consider it.

Technology is at least helping to get this material distrubuted cheaply, whatever the legal controversies [there's lots of other, far more important legal technicalities I regard as a joke or grossly unfair, but I won't go into that here]

The way things stand without cds is that this material is becoming more specialized and obscure as time goes on, and recording this stuff is at least making sure it exists in another format in case the paper copies perish [in a fire/theft/water damage, God forbid]

Lots of original negatives of vintage films went up in flames in supposed 'stronghold vaults' during the last Century----if digital copies had been in existance then, at least the films would still be around to view.

cd-roms are a cheaper way of getting access to the stuff for the majority who can't afford it-----regarding incompatible hardware/software in the future---all I can say on this is that Queen Victorias' voice was recorded in the late 19th Century onto an archaic wax cylinder device---but somebody managed to convert it so it could be heard clearly using today's technology---I heard this myself. It was as clear as a bell.

cds are just back-ups, all my pictures and photos are on cd now----maybe I will lose the lot, but if I look after them hopefully they will survive.

cds will never be the real deal and are just a way of seeing this stuff in a second-hand format.

But this method is undoubtedly getting rarer stuff 'out there' for many who probably wouldn't bother seeking out the originals---or more likely, don't have the financial means to appease the capitalists who clean up in the physical media arena----------, so it's not neccessarilly all bad.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

I've just had a look at the prices for 60s-70s WHAM! items on e-bay, and the prices are OK to be honest [although it's early in the bidding at this stage]:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... &_from=R40


---perhaps the availibility of material on c-d rom has the effect of lowering the price of the paper versions, which is probably a good thing? These items certainly seem cheaper than they were before the cd versions swamped the market-------it creates less 'exclusivity' and cheaper prices for all , hopefully, which I personally welcome.

Not good news for the elitists, of course!

[philcom55]

However democratic it may sound the problem with arguing that the public should be able to access all comics at little or no cost is deciding where to draw the line. DC and Marvel, for example, publish well over a hundred new comics every month - but it's not just a capitalist conspiracy that says only rich people can afford to read every one of them. Producing all this material involves a significant investment by the publishers so that various individuals can be paid for their labour - not least the writers and artists. If we ever reach the point where the public start downloading all of these titles for free via illegitimate online sources (or cheap DVDs) the publishers would quickly go out of business, the creators would be out of work and the supply of new comics would dry up forever.

It's all very well to say that old comics are different - but how old? Last week's? Last month's? Remember that a lot of titles depend upon Trade Paperback collections to break even - especially the more literate ones by the likes of Gaiman, Moore and Willingham. And even if we succeeded in limiting copyright to 50 years after first publication this would seem grossly unfair to cartoonists who thereby lost the right to profit from their own creations just as they approached retirement.

Though the rights and wrongs may seem quite simple at first glance (especially to a generation raised on iPhones and iPlayers) I'm afraid that the more you delve into them the more they come to resemble a great big quivering can of worms with no easy solutions!

- Phil Rushton

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

Ongoing comics production obviously depends on legal channels, Phil----and nobody seriously wants to see comics die out completely as a result of downloads etc----I personally no longer buy any comics other than reprint compendiums, but this is more down to personal taste----I'm the first to admit that seeing comics on disk is nowhere near as enjoyable as holding a proper comic in your hands.

Nor would I want to see a world where everything is availible only through a computer----I don't bother with downloading music, it does nothing for me.

I still buy dvds and blu-rays----too much choppy video on youtube etc, again it's not quite the same watching stuff online [I went to the cinema FIVE times this week so I still prefer the 'real thing' in most cases.]

Oddly though comics on dvd is the one area I see benefits, but it's more for practical storage and reasons of cost--the downside of this is less satisfactory reading of the material.

[paw broon]

Back to the big companies who own the comics and strips.
"big bad bri wrote:
what somebody at egmont,fleetway etc needs to do is put their entire back catalogue of comics & strips online for free

So this "somebody" scans thousands of comics just so people can read them for nowt." Lew Stringer.

Well, yes they can. And it doesn't have to be made available "for nowt". It's already being done, as has been noted, by Egmont in a small way but also by KFS, who use Dailyink to offer their classic and current strips for a small annual fee. A huge span of comic strips. They can do it, why not others?
http://dailyink.com/vintage
I would dare to suggest that this is a model which could be available to other publishers with a library. The problem with KFS is the same as with DCT and Fleetway/IPC product in that the creators get s.f.a as the work was done for hire. KFS are making use of their resources and showing initiative.
Digital comics in general are available through Comixology, Izneo and others. Izneo offer a huge range of French/Belgian titles from many publishers which can be hired or bought. More English translations are released monthly. In these cases, creators will receive their due as lots of Euro stuff is creator owned.
I really dislike this claptrap about the problems of scanning "thousands of comics". It can be done, as is obviously apparent and, were I a shareholder in DCT etc., it would concern me greatly that the company was not utilising a resource and some world renowned characters in an attempt to generate extra business.
These companies are in business, the clue about reaching markets digitally is in the name - world wide web. Get on with it. Try to make some money. You are in business to take a risk for profit.

[philcom55]

In the case of DC Thomson I dare say there are plenty of people who'd do the scanning for free, or as some kind of unpaid internship (I'd volunteer myself if I lived nearer!). What's more, once their vault had been satisfactorily digitized they could make a handsome profit by selling off all the artwork as a job lot - as well as saving themselves a significant storage bill for every year thereafter.

- Phil Rushton

[Lew Stringer]

Back to the big companies who own the comics and strips.
"big bad bri wrote:
what somebody at egmont,fleetway etc needs to do is put their entire back catalogue of comics & strips online for free

So this "somebody" scans thousands of comics just so people can read them for nowt." Lew Stringer.

Well, yes they can. And it doesn't have to be made available "for nowt". It's already being done, as has been noted, by Egmont in a small way

Yes, I was the one who noted it.

It was Bri who suggested they be made available for free, not me, as seen in your quote. I was pointing out how unlikely that would be.

[philcom55]

I really do believe that the sort of low-fee instant-access world envisaged by Paw is an inevitability - the only question is how long it will take to get there (and in fairness to Nigel I admit that some of the really obscure items might be left to gather dust for a long time indeed).

Unfortunately I don't expect to be one of the beneficiaries of this brave new world as I can't afford an iPad - or even a decent computer. Unlike the multiplying generations who've never known a non-digital environment those printed copies that I've managed to collect will be more than good enough to last me for the rest of my lifetime.

- Phil R.

[peace355]

I did get the Misty digital issue, it was a collection of short stories, while interesting it was a bit limited. I would hope if they get enough interest though they will start releasing more content.

I think possibly instead of trying to sell off issues it may be better to sell off stories, the issues of Misty I have are good but I personally find there are too many short stories, I'd be much more inclined to pay to get the full story of "The Four Faces of Eve" in one go, than buying several issues.

[Phoenix]

I would like a whole stack of the originals, but even if I did,the act of me obtaining lots of good copies will cause further scarcity, and push up the premium costs of these comics even further out of the reach of many comics fans.

This is a specious argument because however large the stack you buy, you will only be buying one copy of each issue number. The effect on the scarcity situation will therefore be absolutely minimal, and there will be no effect whatsoever on the premium costs of the comics.

I've always resisted this idea of a select few hanging onto 'the goods' while the majority drool into the shop window at goods they can't possibly afford

Why exactly do you feel this way, Rab? You can't possibly be expecting the select few to share their collections with others, presumably including you. I can understand that the drooling majority might want to buy more comics to add to their own collection because that is exactly what collectors do. They may complain about a lack of availability, they may complain about the prices being asked, but what they don't do, at least those that I know personally, is complain that the lack of availability and/or the prices are due to a select few hanging on to 'the goods'. It's commerce, Rab, pure and simple, and the disposition of the world's wealth does seem unfair. There were many occasions when I was a child on which I told my father I wanted something. His answer was almost invariably Well you can just want. So I learned to do without. Very occasionally he would offer a deal. One such followed my I want a bicycle. His reply was Pass for the Grammar School and I'll buy you the bicycle. I earned the bicycle. As for being able to buy comics/story papers, I had to find some legitimate ways to get hold of some cash, like collecting waste paper and trundling it for miles to a paper mill. But often, even when I had some money, I had to make choices. A Lyons ice cream or The Hotspur, 2oz of aniseed balls or The Wizard etc. The issue of choices has been a lifetime companion for me, as it is for most people, including you. One example for you to consider will suffice. You tell us that this week you've been to the cinema five times. You are using the information quite legitimately to make a different point from mine, but mine is just as legitimate. Your love of films is well documented here, but has it occurred to you that the five choices you have made this week have meant that you have spent money that you could have used to buy some comics for your collection. Guessing at around £10 or so for one adult ticket at a provincial cinema, if you had gone only twice you would have had £30 to spend on comics, or anything else of course. Assuming that you would spend it on comics and, extrapolating from the information that you have given, you could have £30 a week, or over £100 a month to spend on comics. Then you could do what we all do, buy what we can afford, not whine about what we can't afford, and learn to be patient.

[Lew Stringer]

I agree with Phoenix 100% there.

Anyway, who are these "elitists" and "select few" and who selects them?