Harry Potter (bear with me)

DJDogfart · Post by **DJDogfart** » 27 Jul 2007, 21:57

OK this post is not about Harry Potter. So here goes...
I think it's safe to say that Bloomsbury took a risk publishing Harry Potter. They told her the book was too long for children. She'd already been turned down by countless publishers (who must be kicking themselves now) so it was a gamble i'm sure. Comic publishers don't seem to take these risks. Who's to say that all kids want is a full colour, glossy comic with big frames and all action. Viz appealed to my generation becuase it was like the comics of yesteryear but it was (and still is to an extent) quite old style, strips with plenty of black and white and 2 colour offerings and it certainly was unique and a suprise hit. If publishers were to produce a comic like this maybe it would appeal becuase it is different and quirky. It might get a cult following. It's a bit of a gamble but aren't all suprise hits a risk? Imagine if Stevenson kept his steam engine from the world becuase he thought it would never catch on...

tolworthy · Post by **tolworthy** » 27 Jul 2007, 23:10

DJDogfart wrote:Who's to say that all kids want is a full colour, glossy comic with big frames and all action. Viz appealed to my generation becuase it was like the comics of yesteryear but it was (and still is to an extent) quite old style, strips with plenty of black and white and 2 colour offerings and it certainly was unique and a suprise hit.

Other comics could learn a lot from Viz. Not the smut (yawn) but the story telling style. At least the ones I've seen. I'm not a regular reader, but I stumbled across a Viz story the other day, and I was amazed. The art wasn't great, but there was a whole story on one page. A whole story on one page! Not just a single predictable situation, but a whole narrative. And maybe 20 plus frames. It really looked like a labor of love. I wish all comics were like that.

Call me mean if you like, but I love comics that are grateful for my hard earned pennies. I like comics that make use of every inch of space. I like comics to be bursting at the seems with comicky goodness, I liek them literally packed with stuff. If a story stretches onto two pages I expect War and Peace, nothing less. I figure that if Ken Reid could do it, if even Viz can do it, why can't other comics?

I reckon this would go some way to solving the problem of publishers not taking risks. If stories took up half the space then your printing costs are half as much, or you can afford to add more stories per issue. I'm just saying, is all.

tolworthy · Post by **tolworthy** » 28 Jul 2007, 00:09

Lew Stringer wrote:Rates on comics are lower, relatively, than they were when Ken Reid was producing his best work. Editors appreciate that artists have to make a living so the number of panels per page decreased. Viz pay a far higher rate. Simple as that really.

Makes sense. But I wonder if there isn't a way around it? What's wrong with paying creators more to spend more time on pages, then filling in the rest with reprints? Or printing more of the readers' stuff? Or sample showcase pics from other titles? Or even (shock) tell advertisers they can have an extra page if they design their ads as high quality comics? Surely we can't just give up on the idea of lovingly crafted comics.

Lew Stringer · Post by **Lew Stringer** » 28 Jul 2007, 00:40

tolworthy wrote:
Lew Stringer wrote:Rates on comics are lower, relatively, than they were when Ken Reid was producing his best work. Editors appreciate that artists have to make a living so the number of panels per page decreased. Viz pay a far higher rate. Simple as that really.
Makes sense. But I wonder if there isn't a way around it? What's wrong with paying creators more to spend more time on pages, then filling in the rest with reprints? Or printing more of the readers' stuff? Or sample showcase pics from other titles? Or even (shock) tell advertisers they can have an extra page if they design their ads as high quality comics? Surely we can't just give up on the idea of lovingly crafted comics.

I don't think we have entirely. The work in 2000 AD and Judge Dredd Megazine is often just as detailed, if not more, than strips from Valiant, Victor etc. In The Beano, Tom Paterson's work is just as detailed if not more than most humour strips of years ago.

The only difference is in the number of panels per page, but feedback has shown that kids find 20 panels a page too intense now. As mentioned on the other thread about dumbing down, kids are more visually stimulated than they used to be, so 11 panels on a page instead of 20 catches their attention easier.

The format of 10 or 11 panels a page for Beano and 6 panels a page for 2000AD has been in place for quite a long time now. Viz is the exception to the rule because it's a parody of golden age comics and the editors like to pack a lot in for the high rates they pay.

Publishers have a budget for the comics. They can't just find extra money if the comic isn't making the profits it used to. Remember in the fifties The Beano sold over a million copies, so there'd be more money to play with.

Lew

tolworthy · Post by **tolworthy** » 28 Jul 2007, 00:46

Lew Stringer wrote:feedback has shown that kids find 20 panels a page too intense now.

You're right of course.

Sigh. I miss the old days.

DJDogfart · Post by **DJDogfart** » 28 Jul 2007, 08:31

But we'll never know if it would work because nobody is willing to take the risk. If kids are willing to read a 600 page novel then who's to say a densley packed comic strip wouldn't re-kindle some forgotten part of the child's brain. If it doesn't get used then it withers and dies.

Captain Storm · Post by **Captain Storm** » 28 Jul 2007, 08:43

Maybe one option would be to get them while they're young

That's not as sinister as it reads.I read a lot here about comic conventions and on various blogs,but never any mention of kids appearing at them.Instead it seems to be geared towards us old farts

Why not bring your kids or relatives along guys and gals.Or why not extend your conventions and do a tour of children's libraries or schools(even teach read comics as a child so I'm sure they wouldn't object to it ).Okay,not all the content is nursery style but that's what the adult section of the libraries are for.Any time I pop into my local library it is chock full of kids and adults.Apparently the graphic novels are a big hit.Okay I know libraries lend books and don't sell them,but get your wares on show to the target audience.Build it and they will come!

Lew Stringer · Post by **Lew Stringer** » 28 Jul 2007, 09:51

Captain Storm wrote:Maybe one option would be to get them while they're young That's not as sinister as it reads.I read a lot here about comic conventions and on various blogs,but never any mention of kids appearing at them.

When the comics advertise those conventions, kids attend. At a London event in the 1990's our 'Sonic the Comic' signing had the largest attendance of any con event that weekend - all kids - because it had been promoted in the comic.

Similarly when Kev F took over the running of the cons, he also managed to bring in a younger audience by involving The Beano and Dandy, and he and Paul Palmer often ran workshops on cartooning for the younger attendees. (There was one at last May's event.)

The sad fact is that most cons of the past didn't want kids there because the events pandered to the "comics aren't just for kids anymore" type: 20 or 30 somethings who are trying to justify their hobby as a "serious art form". They're so busy trying to distance themselves from "kids comics" that they neglected to involve them.

Lew

colcool007 · Post by **colcool007** » 28 Jul 2007, 11:36

And when you do bring kids along, the look of horror on some people's faces are very off-putting. Thankfully my youngest is very easy to please. Any piccie of Dr Who or anything related is enough to keep her smiling. But kudos to Ian and Jane Gibson who both went onto the Aww scale when my kids were there.

Captain Storm · Post by **Captain Storm** » 28 Jul 2007, 16:38

I stand corrected

Now how about a school or library roadshow to get them away from their Xbox or PS3's

Korkythecat · Post by **Korkythecat** » 28 Jul 2007, 23:04

tolworthy wrote:
DJDogfart wrote:
If a story stretches onto two pages I expect War and Peace, nothing less.

Or The Bash Street Kids?

Comics UK