Are weekly comics doomed?

[Kid Robson]

Seems to me. Andy, that you should have assumed your role as a moderator long before now and upbraided yourself for some of the insulting comments you've 'aimed' at me in this discussion.

What insulting comments?

I'd like to know as well. This has been a fairly intelligent thread with no insults thrown at anyone, so I would be interested to know what comments have been considered as insulting.

The remark about loitering around the comic section for too long in WHS seemed to be a little ambiguous in its intent, as was noted by another member. Also, suggesting that I act like a child, particularly a spoilt one, was hardly complimentary. Based on Andy's usual course of action (locking a thread or deleting a comment) when such remarks are made by others, I got the distinct impression that he wasn't exercising the same stringent application of 'moderation' as he usually does.

I should add 'though that, one or two instances apart, I agree with your assessment of the discussion.

[Raven]

If The Beano is to survive for another 75 years as a published-on-paper periodical, it can't keep putting the increased costs of keeping the comic going onto an ever-diminishing number of readers because, to do so, will chase even more readers away in the long run.

Kid, as the thread is probably hurtling towards being locked in its present course, how about addressing the Nellyphant in the room: my points upthread about the enormous shifts in the media landscape and people's - especially young people's - attention away from "old media" to digital platforms that adapt to the individual user, etc.

Bearing that in mind, do you really think there's even a vague possibility of The Beano surviving as an on-paper periodical for another 75 years - or, even, realistically, another 10? (Will there be any print publications at all around in 2088 - or will media be almost unrecognisable decades before that?) The possibility of another 5 is interesting to ponder.

It seems to me that ignoring the way things are changing is just micturating into the wind.

[Kid Robson]

Sadly, I think you may be right, which is why I originally posed the question. However, I'm sure you'll understand why when I say I hope you're not right. Digital 'comics' hold no appeal for me. Yeah, we're probably sitting on the beach, railing against the tide in a futile attempt to stop it from coming in. Sigh.

[Lew Stringer]

Also, suggesting that I act like a child, particularly a spoilt one, was hardly complimentary.

To be fair to Andy, that was in response to you saying that you are a child....

But that still comes down to one thing: you are not a child.

Oh yes I am!

As for the main question, yes, weekly paper comics probably are 'doomed', considering there are only three of them left in the UK (and one of those, The Phoenix, has extremely limited distribution). But weekly comics haven't been the norm in the UK for many years now, so that's inevitable I guess. I hope The Beano remains a weekly for a long time yet though.

Are UK comics themselves in danger of disappearing? I doubt it, considering the huge number of indie titles around, and new cartoonists coming into the business all the time. Whether many people will be able to make a living wage out of it in the future is the question. The idea of self publishing indie comics has always been great, and some are definitely pro standard, but if they only have small print runs and are published infrequently they're not going to bring in a real income for the creators.

On the other hand, more publishers seem keen on getting into graphic novels, so the UK is starting to finally follow Europe in that regard. But we're still not producing the amount of comic albums that some other countries do.

[Raven]

Sadly, I think you may be right, which is why I originally posed the question. However, I'm sure you'll understand why when I say I hope you're not right. Digital 'comics' hold no appeal for me. Yeah, we're probably sitting on the beach, railing against the tide in a futile attempt to stop it from coming in. Sigh.

It probably won't even be digital comics in a form we'd imagine them, because traditional narrative storytelling forms won't necessarily engage many of tomorrow's (and possibly today's) kids. It'll be very sad to see art forms as we know them become museum pieces, and the demand for many traditional skills wiped out, though, in another way, what's emerging will undoubtedly be very exciting for the new generations of kids, and I expect we'd have seized on them just as excitedly had they been around when we were kids.

[Lew Stringer]

Speaking of digital, let's not forget (as I did when writing my previous post) that we have Aces Weekly published online every week. All-new, published by Britain's own David Lloyd, and featuring numerous professional comic creators from the UK and abroad. It's been running for a year now...

http://www.acesweekly.co.uk/home

[Raven]

Are UK comics themselves in danger of disappearing? I doubt it, considering the huge number of indie titles around, and new cartoonists coming into the business all the time. Whether many people will be able to make a living wage out of it in the future is the question.

It's not just cartoonists, but writers, journalists, and all sorts of traditional talents who'll find it impossible to make a living wage, Lew; it's already having a devastating impact. The rising generation will increasingly expect everything for free - and they'll have everything they want for free, instantly. And little of what they want will be old-style media.

[Lew Stringer]

Are UK comics themselves in danger of disappearing? I doubt it, considering the huge number of indie titles around, and new cartoonists coming into the business all the time. Whether many people will be able to make a living wage out of it in the future is the question.

It's not just cartoonists, but writers, journalists, and all sorts of traditional talents who'll find it impossible to make a living wage, Lew; it's already having a devastating impact. The rising generation will increasingly expect everything for free - and they'll have everything they want for free, instantly. And little of what they want will be old-style media.

True. A lot of people already expect the 'net to give them their entertainment free and immediately. It's not just the young generation either. Very depressing.

[Kid Robson]

Also, suggesting that I act like a child, particularly a spoilt one, was hardly complimentary.

To be fair to Andy, that was in response to you saying that you are a child....

But a spoilt one? It's hardly my fault that I was run over by a steamroller.

[Phoenix]

Well I'm glad to see that you do at least accept one of the two points I was making.

Actually, as I was merely reiterating a point I had already made and which you had missed, you're mistaken in your presumption.

Which point was that, and where exactly did you make it? Have you misunderstood my point?

I don't have to square it because there is no discrepancy.

There is a discrepancy, which is caused by your use of the word usually.

Being in possession of adult faculties doesn't always mean that we use them to our best (or any) advantage. Or how else are we to explain your response?

I notice that you were complaining earlier about what you perceive to be insulting comments aimed at you. Can you explain to me, please, why you feel that you should be excused from doing the same thing, such as in your statement that I have quoted above this query.

[Kid Robson]

Still hanging in there, eh? As to your first question, you can do the work yourself. I ain't going back through the entire thread in order to score a few points. No, there is no discrepancy in what I said; only in your misinterpretation of it in pursuit of your penchant for pedantry. Last point: There are insults and there are insults, but I don't feel that I should be excused for 'doing the same thing'. The rest of us on this thread have been discussing a subject that is bigger than all of us. You seem to have devoted yourself to misreading a few of my sentences and then deconstructing your own misinterpretations of them - merely for the purpose of saying "Look how clever I am." That doesn't seem to be the most useful employment of 'adult faculties', so I gently implied so.

[colcool007]

Seems to me. Andy, that you should have assumed your role as a moderator long before now and upbraided yourself for some of the insulting comments you've 'aimed' at me in this discussion.

I'd like to know as well. This has been a fairly intelligent thread with no insults thrown at anyone, so I would be interested to know what comments have been considered as insulting.

The remark about loitering around the comic section for too long in WHS seemed to be a little ambiguous in its intent, as was noted by another member. Also, suggesting that I act like a child, particularly a spoilt one, was hardly complimentary. Based on Andy's usual course of action (locking a thread or deleting a comment) when such remarks are made by others, I got the distinct impression that he wasn't exercising the same stringent application of 'moderation' as he usually does.

I should add 'though that, one or two instances apart, I agree with your assessment of the discussion.

Taking the points in order. It is a fact of life in today's society that while the geek is celebrated, people will be suspicious of adults taking part in what is considered the activity of a child i.e. loitering around the comic section. So to construe that as insult is a bit thin-skinned even for me.

Suggesting that you act like a child when you yourself have confessed that you are a child, despite your years, is hypocritical to say the least.

As to insults in return, you have variously described Andy as a company man when he works for HMG not DCT and suggested that he is boot-licking in order to get a job with DCT cannot be considered even mildly complimentary. And you now suggest that he is going to take everyone's thread away by locking it.

Your last post again throws the charge of pedantic behaviour against Phoenix. Now, that I rarely argue with, but considering he always get to the root of the problem, I see his pedantry as no bad thing...at times.

Kid, it suggests to me that you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye. (Thanks to Matthew 7:3)

[Kid Robson]

Taking the points in order. It is a fact of life in today's society that while the geek is celebrated, people will be suspicious of adults taking part in what is considered the activity of a child i.e. loitering around the comic section. So to construe that as insult is a bit thin-skinned even for me.

Tosh, Col. It carried an insinuation under cover of 'advice'. It insinuated that perhaps I was spending too much time, loitering' even, around the children's comics section of WHS. It was entirely unnecessary to the discussion. If I'd said it, all hell would have broken loose.

Suggesting that you act like a child when you yourself have confessed that you are a child, despite your years, is hypocritical to say the least.

Again, complete tosh. My remark was in obvious jest, in order to introduce some levity into the discussion, and was in reference to my nickname. 'Hypocritical'? What a completely inappropriate and disproportionate word.

As to insults in return, you have variously described Andy as a company man when he works for HMG not DCT and suggested that he is boot-licking in order to get a job with DCT cannot be considered even mildly complimentary. And you now suggest that he is going to take everyone's thread away by locking it.

Oh, right, it's not as if he hasn't done it before for far less, is it? And I think you'll find that it was Raven who suggested that, not me. And given Andy's failure to offer one helpful suggestion or be even mildy critical of The Beano's situation - and in light of his statement that he'd love to work for the comic - my remark doesn't seem too far off the mark, does it? You're also now contradicting yourself, Col. Previously, you said there had been no insults in the discussion; now, in defence of your fellow moderator, you seem to be suddenly finding some in my remarks. If there were, the operative words are ones you used: "in return".

Your last post again throws the charge of pedantic behaviour against Phoenix. Now, that I rarely argue with, but considering he always get to the root of the problem, I see his pedantry as no bad thing...at times.

Perhaps, but this wasn't one of those times. And sometimes he misses the 'root 'entirely - or creates his own.

Kid, it suggests to me that you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye. (Thanks to Matthew 7:3)

Well, as you have already admitted that any insults of mine (of which you can't quite seem to make up your mind on the matter) were "in return", Id say it's rather a case of the speck in my eye and the plank in someone else's.

Does this mean our engagement's off?

[Phoenix]

Still hanging in there, eh?

How dismissive is that! It implies that I haven't quite accepted, or even understood, your authoritative-sounding pronouncements.

As to your first question, you can do the work yourself. I ain't going back through the entire thread in order to score a few points.

There's no point in my looking for it because it isn't there.

No, there is no discrepancy in what I said; only in your misinterpretation of it in pursuit of your penchant for pedantry.

Please don't continue to deny the obvious. People other than yourself can be right from time to time. Perhaps you didn't realise that?

There are insults and there are insults, but I don't feel that I should be excused for 'doing the same thing'.

In that case, you should be apologising to me for insulting me. Like most of us, I'm merely trying to move this thread forward with any pertinent comments that occur to me, to advance the discussion. In the five years I've been a member of comicsuk, I've only ever been insulted by you, and that on a regular basis.

You seem to have devoted yourself to misreading a few of my sentences and then deconstructing your own misinterpretations of them - merely for the purpose of saying "Look how clever I am."

This is gobbledegook.

saying "Look how clever I am." That doesn't seem to be the most useful employment of 'adult faculties'

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that is what you do all the time.

Note to Admin :- Please don't lock this thread. The discussion is interesting.

[Kid Robson]

How dismissive is that! It implies that I haven't quite accepted, or even understood, your authoritative-sounding pronouncements.

That's right - you didn't.

There's no point in my looking for it because it isn't there.

It is, it's just that you don't know what you're looking for.

Please don't continue to deny the obvious. People other than yourself can be right from time to time. Perhaps you didn't realise that?

Indeed, but this isn't one of those times.

In that case, you should be apologising to me for insulting me.

You should be apologising to everyone for insulting their intelligence by masquerading under the pretence of saying anything pertinent, when all you do is pick people up on how they phrase their comments in order to demonstrate just how clever you think you are.

Like most of us, I'm merely trying to move this thread forward with any pertinent comments that occur to me, to advance the discussion.

If that's what you're trying to do, you're singularly failing with nonsense like this.

In the five years I've been a member of comicsuk, I've only ever been insulted by you, and that on a regular basis.

Nonsense. You're the one who insists on visiting my threads and trying to pick arguments with me over the most trivial of points. Talking of which, you failed to make yours because you constructed it out of nothing; or to be more accurate, you distorted what I had said in order to create a straw man to attack. No one's interested in this kind of exchange but you.

This is gobbledegook. I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that is what you do all the time.

It's a pretty safe bet that you're mistaken then. You usually are, I've found.

I'd rather avoid this kind of nonsense, but sensing that you may have the support of colcool007, you're trying to provoke me into saying something which will get me banned. People will see what they want to, but I won't sit in silence in the face of this kind of obvious baiting. I'd suggest you do something more suited to your talents and which you do so well - trying to tell the women in the Girls' Comics section what they really mean because what they've said isn't in accord with what you want them to mean. Strewth!