The pc brigade are at it again

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

here's DAN typically openly vandalizing CACTUSVILLE Council Property [frame 4]:

-----he's also making short work of RAILROAD property here: and this is a pretty mild outing......




and here's old DAN again treating animals with less than customary respect [again, this is a mild encounter, I remember him 'headbutting' animals to death in some WATKINS' stories;] and he made short work of a whale in one outing.



These scenarios are too ludicrous and fantastic to take seriously; however, some of these tales now have disclaimers in reprints [though, usually, they are kept in the archives, so not to offend those sensitive PC-types]........shame, as they were among the most vital and funny examples of historical DAN ever.



HOLLYWOOD had it's own version of PC-type policies in the 30s, after the notorious 'PRODUCTION CODE' came into being around 1934: early 'POPEYE' cartoons, for example, often contained early DAN-like mistreatment of exotic/domestic animals, and as a result the post-CODE efforts lose the edge a fair bit.......live-action films also had a lot of scenes of [ludicrous] brutality taken out; in the case of the early 'KING KONG', it took decades to locate and re-instate the lost clips.

I wonder if history will judge today's PC lobby [regarding comics, in our case] with the same disdain as these early 'censors' are now looked upon by film fans and historians alike: as well-meaning, but essentially damaging, interfering short-sighted self-censors, who tried----but ultimately failed-------to vandalize entertaining works that are still enjoyed by many punters, literally decades later, after the 'censors' are all gone and forgotten?

[Lew Stringer]

the above 'WALTER' prototype 'bra' might give future 'progressive' 'BEANO' scriptwriters ideas: if so, this is by far the biggest blunder I have yet undertaken on these pages:

Still, worry about that if it happens eh? Or is getting hot under the collar about these imagined activities by the so-called "pc brigade" and "progressives" all part of some forum group therapy?

Lew

[Lew Stringer]

These scenarios are too ludicrous and fantastic to take seriously; however, some of these tales now have disclaimers in reprints [though, usually, they are kept in the archives, so not to offend those sensitive PC-types]........shame, as they were among the most vital and funny examples of historical DAN ever.

I presume then that you completely missed the Desperate Dan strips from that era which were reprinted in Dandy Xtreme only last year, with none of those alleged "disclaimers"? Or Jamie Smart's version of Desperate Dan punching out a bear the other week? Or the fact that Dennis is still picking on Walter?

I wonder if history will judge today's PC lobby [regarding comics, in our case] with the same disdain as these early 'censors' are now looked upon by film fans and historians alike: as well-meaning, but essentially damaging, interfering short-sighted self-censors, who tried----but ultimately failed-------to vandalize entertaining works that are still enjoyed by many punters, literally decades later, after the 'censors' are all gone and forgotten?

Probably not, because as has already been pointed out, this "pc lobby" regarding comics doesn't exist except in the realms of amusing PR stunts by publishers. Over the last few years we've heard how "political correctness" stopped Desperate Dan from eating cow pies or wearing a gun. All a publicity stunt I'm afraid Robert. Just the sort of thing that gets Daily Mail readers frothing at the mouth but keeps The Dandy and Beano in the public eye, even if they don't actually bother to check if the story is true or not.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good old rant eh?

Lew

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

It's all all good, stimulating stuff, LEW: the reason this site exists in the first place. Sorry, I buy neither comics or newspapers anymore, unless there's a particularly enticing free gift contained!

[Lew Stringer]

It's all all good, stimulating stuff, LEW: the reason this site exists in the first place. Sorry, I buy neither comics or newspapers anymore, unless there's a particularly enticing free gift contained!

So you've spent this thread complaining about comics you don't read, believing PR stunts from newspapers you haven't read?!?


Lew

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

got it in one! I don't watch TV, either! However, I go to the cinema 3 times a week, and look at scans of modern comics online.

Modern comics have improved, to me, mostly in terms of improved coloring techniques and paper stock. I blame the introduction of 'scaled-down' artwork, which started around the early 80s,--- especially in the 'funnies' market,---- for what I see as a terminal downhill slide in COMICS quality: you just need to look at a 1970s 'MONSTER FUN' [let alone an early 60s 'BEANO'] to see the difference in artwork quality compared to today...

It's a bit like TV or music: all the best, vital work seems to have been done in the past, today we have high-definition telly and vastly improved recording techniques, but apparantly very little decent shows or tunes with which to place.....

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of very talented creators working today in the comics industry, but the compressed, postage-stamp-sized canvas [which started with the US newspaper comics scene] is by neccessity forcing artists to take essential shortcuts and encourages more scaled-down work, that lacks the spectacle so often seen in earlier comics.

Well, that's what I think, anyway!

[Lew Stringer]

got it in one! I don't watch TV, either! However, I go to the cinema 3 times a week, and look at scans of modern comics online.

So on the one hand you want comics to improve, but on the other you're happy to read scans instead of supporting them financially?

Modern comics have improved, to me, mostly in terms of improved coloring techniques and paper stock. I blame the introduction of 'scaled-down' artwork, which started around the early 80s,--- especially in the 'funnies' market,---- for what I see as a terminal downhill slide in COMICS quality: you just need to look at a 1970s 'MONSTER FUN' [let alone an early 60s 'BEANO'] to see the difference in artwork quality compared to today...

How do you know the artwork of "funnies" has declined when you admit you never buy modern comics?

An informed opinion is always welcome, whether it be pro or con, but you seem to be quite literally "talking without your book", to coin an old phrase.

As for "political correctness" I'm a little tired to see it constantly attacked as if it were something evil and corrupt. The basis for so-called "political correctness" is to create a fairer world of equality and decency based on common sense, condemning racism, sexism, and other unjustified bigotry and cruelty. Its purpose is good, not bad.

The only time it goes wrong is when some people take it to extremes, - but this is rare and often exaggerated by the press. Unfortunately, those few isolated cases are then used to begrudge ALL political correctness.

I also find it bemusing that some of those who resent "political correctness" are themselves appalled at "fart gags" and "gross humour" in today's comics, - things that would not have been allowed in comics 50 years ago. You can't have it both ways! The truth is British comics aren't policed by a "pc brigade". They're just doing what they've always done, - reflecting modern society and its tastes.

Lew

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

TV is not going to improve simply because I switch it on and start watching it; the same goes for buying comics; what I am doing is trying to create my own stuff, which gives me more satisfaction than being a passive observer...

I't's no secret I am openly non-PC [not so much 'anti, just not going along with the flow: EVERYBODY can't think as one, or we'd live in a horrific, conglomorate world]....


------come to think of it............

[Lew Stringer]

TV is not going to improve simply because I switch it on and start watching it; the same goes for buying comics

If more people bought comics instead of stealing them off the internet then profits would be higher and budgets for comics might rise too, therefore allowing artists to spend more time on each page.

I't's no secret I am openly non-PC [not so much 'anti, just not going along with the flow: EVERYBODY can't think as one, or we'd live in a horrific, conglomorate world]....

Which might be admirable if you were the exception to the rule, which you're not. There do seem to be a lot of people around who don't or won't understand that the tales of "political correctness" we see in the media are just that, - tales to sell papers. The header of this thread is "The pc brigade are at it again". Truth is, they're not! Why keep perpetuating that myth?

Sad to see some comic fans here "going with the flow" of anti-pc hysteria and condemning modern comics for the sort of "political correctness" that they're not actually guilty of. I've pointed this out to you several times on this thread, but as you don't buy comics I suppose you're used to "avoiding the issue", - literally. (Groan.)

Lew

[Raven]

Well said Gary. Amusingly, The History of The Beano has an item all about the way the comic has used publicity stunts to draw attention to the comic in recent years. Perhaps some people here could read it.

Seriously, come on chaps. As comic historians we're supposed to see through these stunts, not fall for them hook line and sinker. It's just a bit of fun to keep the comics in the public eye. In short: don't believe all you read in the papers.

Lew

As I understand it though, Lew, though it may have been taken out of context and blown out of proportion to help plug the book, the comments about Dennis v. Walter were taken from the actual text of the History book where the former editor is discussing his run on the comic, weren't they? It's only a couple of sentences, but they're presumably not actually made up or a joke - and it's an interesting enough topic for discussion.

In a series like Tough Nutt and Softy Centre in Shiver & Shake, the weekly scenario is that a bully picks on an effeminate - or 'unmanly' - kid, but the bully is clearly the bad guy and always loses. It's more difficult and interesting with Dennis as Dennis is basically the 'hero' of the strip.

Thomsons used to try to get round it by showing Dennis being physically beaten at the end of each strip as punishment (not that it ever seemed to work) - in itself rather dodgy, but once considered acceptable.

As comics historians this is surely *exactly* the kind of thing we'd be finding interesting?

[Lew Stringer]

As I understand it though, Lew, though it may have been taken out of context and blown out of proportion to help plug the book, the comments about Dennis v. Walter were taken from the actual text of the History book where the former editor is discussing his run on the comic, weren't they?

Not quite. In the book Euan Kerr says "The relationship between Dennis and Walter was always one that worried me. We decided the best way to approach it was to make sure that even though he and Dennis didn't get along, Walter was completely happy about who he was and a confident, likeable character in his own right."

This is a million miles away from "pc brigade thought Walter was gay" that the media claimed. Euan does say that political correctness has affected The Beano, but only in things such as avoiding showing corporal punishment. Which makes sense because it no longer happens in schools! It's as obsolete as showing a horse-drawn milk float or Mums using mangles. No pc pressure; just the comic moving with the times.

What the book does point out is the way in which The Beano has used amusing "publicity gimmicks" to blame "political correctness" for changes in the characters. For example, giving Dennis a shell suit one week, and moving the Bash Street Kids to a hi-tech school and revamping the characters. These were deliberately temporary changes purely for publicity, - not down to any pc pressure group.

The media fell for it (or were in on the joke) and poor old "political correctness" gets the blame for nothing. But no harm done and it's all good PR for The Beano!

Lew

[Raven]

Lew: "Not quite. In the book Euan Kerr says "The relationship between Dennis and Walter was always one that worried me. We decided the best way to approach it was to make sure that even though he and Dennis didn't get along, Walter was completely happy about who he was and a confident, likeable character in his own right."

This is a million miles away from "pc brigade thought Walter was gay" that the media claimed."



Ah yes, that's right. The quote in the press seemed like a longer - presumably the complete - version of what you quoted above from the book. Though I think the point (of the unabridged quote) was that Euan himself and his colleagues were concerned that it may have been starting to look a little like 'gay bashing' in the strip rather than the mythical politically correct "brigade" (do they have helmets like the fire brigade?) complaining.

I think there'll be truth in this and there would have come a point where the 'unmanly' depiction of Walter and Dennis's picking on him because of it would have become increasingly hard to justify, unless handled with care, as people became a little more enlightened.


"Euan does say that political correctness has affected The Beano, but only in things such as avoiding showing corporal punishment. Which makes sense because it no longer happens in schools! It's as obsolete as showing a horse-drawn milk float or Mums using mangles. No pc pressure; just the comic moving with the times."


Yes, but it was mainly parents dishing it out in the strips, rather than schools, wasn't it? Or in the case of Whacky from Cor!! it could equally be an elephant using its trunk to thrash the poor boy with a tree branch.

I think it's truly that children being beaten is no longer considered an appropriate or amusing tag to a story, because society's attitudes towards children have changed significantly - but the term 'political correctness' is just misleading.


"What the book does point out is the way in which The Beano has used amusing "publicity gimmicks" to blame "political correctness" for changes in the characters. For example, giving Dennis a shell suit one week, and moving the Bash Street Kids to a hi-tech school and revamping the characters. These were deliberately temporary changes purely for publicity, - not down to any pc pressure group."


I remember these gimmicks - and they were obviously publicity gimmicks - well, but I don't think it was ever claimed that they'd been forced by a 'pc pressure group.' The way I recall them being presented in the papers was as if the decision was Thomson's and that the characters were simply 'modernising.' Rather like Yogi Bear becoming Yo Yogi, wearing a back to front baseball cap and moving to Jellystone Mall, or the Disney Channel's recent reimagining of the Famous Five in a multicultural 2008 model.

After all, what is 'politically correct' about shellsuits or high tech schools? It's lumping shellsuits in with corporal punishment and eating cow pies and racism and so on - it just becomes a nonsense where 'PC' is used as a blanket term to mean absolutely anything and everything that the complainer wishes to complain about.

[Lew Stringer]

I remember these gimmicks - and they were obviously publicity gimmicks - well, but I don't think it was ever claimed that they'd been forced by a 'pc pressure group.' The way I recall them being presented in the papers was as if the decision was Thomsons and that the characters were 'modernising.' Rather like Yogi Bear becoming Yo Yogi, wearing a back to front baseball cap and moving to Jellystone Mall, or the Disney Channel's recent reimagining of the Famous Five in a 2008 model.

After all, what is 'politically correct' about shellsuits or high tech schools? It's lumping shellsuits in with corporal punishment and eating cow pies and racism and so on - it just becomes a nonsense where 'PC' is used as a blanket term to mean absolutely anything and everything that the complainer wishes to complain about.

Fair point about the shell suit and school. That was just to outrage traditionalists, not a pc gimmick.

The Bash Street KIds one was playing the pc card though as it claimed Plug would lose his protruding teeth for political correctness. Same goes for the "Desperate Dan goes veggie" story, which again wasn't true, - but even today people say to me "Desperate Dan had to stop eating cow pies because of political correctness. The world's gone mad! It's those loony lefties! I know it's true because it was in the Daily Mail, etc..."

Some people DO believe what they read in the papers, and they don't bother checking the comics to see if it's true or not.

Lew

PS: What just occurred to me is that those Beano publicity gimmicks are so true to the tone of the comic, - pranks to outrage the establishment! Chortle!

[Peter Gray]

At the time I believed the Dennis story of him changing his image...it fooled me..
kids don't wear black shorts these days..mind you his shoes did change from brown to trainers..

[Raven]

At the time I believed the Dennis story of him changing his image...it fooled me..
kids don't wear black shorts these days..mind you his shoes did change from brown to trainers..

Well, the Yo Yogi and Famous Five on the Case examples are true, so it is possible! People do put so much faith in market researchers and focus groups now, who could easily come back with "87% of under-10s prefer Dennis in a shell suit ... "