Beano - new direction? *** locked ***

[NP]

As for The Dandy's circulation falling by half overnight (not something I ever claimed, by the way), I think people mean that in a purely hyperbolic (and relative) way, not in a literal one.

No, you didn't claim it, I was just referring back to some of the claims earlier in this and other threads which demonstrated little grasp of statistics, averages, means, modes and medians, as well as sample rate. It is hyperbole but I prefer more level-headed discussion. Usually.

[Kid Robson]

A different approach, more along the lines of The Beano, might have staved off cancellation for a little while longer, if not reversed the comic's fortunes completely.

The Dandy had been similar to The Beano for years, but that traditional approach was no longer working for it, which is why they tried the revamps in 2004, 2007 and 2010. Sadly overall the trend continued. Unfortunately sales on all comics have been falling for decades so The Dandy should be praised for making it to 75 years really.

The Dandy had indeed been similar, but the mistake DCT made was to panic in the face of declining sales and change the nature of the comic completely in 2004. If The Dandy could have retained anywhere near the circulation it had before its first relaunch, it would probably still be around today. Each successive relaunch seemed to have hastened it to its doom.

However, you're right - it should be praised for making it to 75 years, 'though I'd have preferred it to last at least twice as long.

[Digifiend]

In 2007 I was on a panel with a DCT bigwig who said "I don't think we'll be publishing the Dandy in five years time". It wasn't really a surprise, the 2010 relaunch was an attempt to do something new, and it didn't have the effect they hoped. It was a last-ditch attempt and it didn't succeed in reversing the sales figures.

And that was said BEFORE the Xtreme revamp, was it? Did they have no confidence in it or what? Given the sales figures, it's eventual demise was no surprise. But them saying five years and two revamps before the event that they expected it to happen? That's surprising, and sad to hear.

[philcom55]

Whatever people may think about the product nobody should ever accuse DC Thomson of not going the extra mile (and then some) to keep mainstream British comics afloat - especially when one remembers that all their major rivals bailed out decades ago. I've no doubt that both Dandy and Beano would have been long gone by now if they belonged to IPC!

- Phil R.

[Kid Robson]

Whatever people may think about the product nobody should ever accuse DC Thomson of not going the extra mile (and then some) to keep mainstream British comics afloat - especially when one remembers that all their major rivals bailed out decades ago. I've no doubt that both Dandy and Beano would have been long gone by now if they belonged to IPC!

- Phil R.

True, but DCT's characters have long been much more iconic than IPC's and, consequently, due to the potential merchandising profits, it's been in their own best interests to try and keep the comics going for as long as possible. It is a business, after all, and no one should delude themselves that Thomson's have gone that extra mile for anyone's benefit other than their own.

[Digifiend]

Whatever people may think about the product nobody should ever accuse DC Thomson of not going the extra mile (and then some) to keep mainstream British comics afloat - especially when one remembers that all their major rivals bailed out decades ago. I've no doubt that both Dandy and Beano would have been long gone by now if they belonged to IPC!

- Phil R.

They'd likely have not survived World War II if IPC's predecessor had owned them. DCT cut page counts and reduced frequency, but AP/Fleetway closed lots of titles down.

[Phoenix]

DCT cut page counts and reduced frequency, but AP/Fleetway closed lots of titles down.

Thomsons chose to lose only two titles, one comic, The Magic, the newest, in order to protect their two flagship titles, and one story paper, The Skipper, the least popular of the five titles, to protect the other four. However, they did wait until 1941 to pull the plug, January 25th for The Magic, The Skipper the following week. AP on the other hand were shedding titles from October 1939 (Modern Boy, Sports Budget, Jolly, Fairyland Tales and The Gem). From March 1940 it became a cascade.

It could be argued that in the case of both companies the decisions were business-based, but I like to think that an important element in Thomsons' decision-making process was the need to take their young readers into account. It certainly wasn't a knee-jerk reaction because they had started to reduce their page-count from October 1939, and although their comics and story papers, even as late as 1946, sometimes only had ten or twelve pages, as opposed to the pre-war figure of twenty-eight, post-war readers certainly had a decent choice of titles from them, and it's worth bearing in mind too that hardly any of the 1946 readers would have known that they were getting sixteen pages fewer than pre-war readers had enjoyed.

The main problem for both companies was, of course, how best to use their paper allowance. Thomsons decided to keep their titles going, and reduce the number of pages as appropriate, whereas the Amalgamated Press reduced the number of their titles so as to use their allowance on maintaining the page-count for titles like The Champion, and for creating new ones.

[philcom55]

...DCT's characters have long been much more iconic than IPC's and, consequently, due to the potential merchandising profits, it's been in their own best interests to try and keep the comics going for as long as possible. It is a business, after all, and no one should delude themselves that Thomson's have gone that extra mile for anyone's benefit other than their own.

Surely characters like Dan Dare, Roy of the Rovers and Billy Bunter were pretty iconic in their own right: it didn't stop IPC from washing their hands of them. For that matter I'd argue that some later characters like Frankie Stein also had the potential to give Dennis the Menace and the Bash Street Kids a run for their money if they'd only been properly merchandised.

I must admit that it feels odd to be acting as a Thomson apologist. For many years I considered myself to be overwhelmingly a Fleetway/Odhams fan, dismissing their dour Scottish rivals as an unsavoury bunch of right-wing, authoritarian, paternalistic reactionaries. To me the real stars of Beano, Dandy, Beezer, etc. were the creative artists like Baxendale, Reid, Watkins and Law - all of them systematically exploited and screwed over by money-grubbing plutocrats.

Since then my perspective has altered considerably. However much substance there may have been to my earlier prejudice I now feel that there are people at the top in Dundee who genuinely care about publishing - unlike IPC, about whom it was latterly said that they'd have much rather been in the wallpaper business. In a funny sort of way I think of DC Thomson as being run by old-style press barons like Rupert Murdoch: hard-headed businessmen to be sure, but businessmen with pure printing ink flowing through their veins. Of course they're not going to throw money away on hopelessly uncommercial ventures, but if it's at all possible to keep their flagship titles solvent against all the odds then I believe they're prepared to take a chance.

Incidentally, it's good to see you posting here Kid. I hope you realize that the above viewpoint is only presented in the spirit of friendly debate and not as a personal rebuff.

- Phil Rushton

[TwoHeadedBoy]

Agreed, good to see you here, Mr. Robson

[Kid Robson]

...DCT's characters have long been much more iconic than IPC's and, consequently, due to the potential merchandising profits, it's been in their own best interests to try and keep the comics going for as long as possible. It is a business, after all, and no one should delude themselves that Thomson's have gone that extra mile for anyone's benefit other than their own.

Surely characters like Dan Dare, Roy of the Rovers and Billy Bunter were pretty iconic in their own right: it didn't stop IPC from washing their hands of them. For that matter I'd argue that some later characters like Frankie Stein also had the potential to give Dennis the Menace and the Bash Street Kids a run for their money if they'd only been properly merchandised.

I must admit that it feels odd to be acting as a Thomson apologist. For many years I considered myself to be overwhelmingly a Fleetway/Odhams fan, dismissing their dour Scottish rivals as an unsavoury bunch of right-wing, authoritarian, paternalistic reactionaries. To me the real stars of Beano, Dandy, Beezer, etc. were the creative artists like Baxendale, Reid, Watkins and Law - all of them systematically exploited and screwed over by money-grubbing plutocrats.

Since then my perspective has altered considerably. However much substance there may have been to my earlier prejudice I now feel that there are people at the top in Dundee who genuinely care about publishing - unlike IPC, about whom it was latterly said that they'd have much rather been in the wallpaper business. In a funny sort of way I think of DC Thomson as being run by old-style press barons like Rupert Murdoch: hard-headed businessmen to be sure, but businessmen with pure printing ink flowing through their veins. Of course they're not going to throw money away on hopelessly uncommercial ventures, but if it's at all possible to keep their flagship titles solvent against all the odds then I believe they're prepared to take a chance.

Incidentally, it's good to see you posting here Kid. I hope you realize that the above viewpoint is only presented in the spirit of friendly debate and not as a personal rebuff.

- Phil Rushton

Thanks, Phil, and don't worry - I don't regard people expressing their opinion as a personal rebuff. On the point of Dan Dare, Roy of the Rovers and Billy Bunter, let's take the last one first. Bunter didn't belong outright to Fleetway 'though, did he? I think they reached an agreement with whoever had the rights, although I freely allow for the possibility that I'm completely wrong there. As for Dan, true, he was an icon, but mainly to adult men who had read Eagle as boys in the '50s. There weren't considered to be enough of them to make 'proper' exploitation worthwhile by the time his iconic status was recognised. Roy of the Rovers is admittedly one character who, arguably, still retains a lot of untapped potential. As for Frankie Stein - he had loads of exploitable promise under the hand of Ken Reid, but it wasn't pursued at the time and thus the opportunity came and went. Besides, a higher profile might have brought some unwelcome interest from Universal Studios.

However, the DCT characters were almost unique, in that different generations from mainly the '50s right up to the present day were aware of them as 'contemporary' entities. Whereas Dan Dare belonged to one generation (because he was heading for oblivion by the time his original readers were old enough to pass the baton on to their children), this wasn't true of the Thomson characters. People in their 60s know who the Bash Street Kids and Dennis the Menace are, but Frankie Stein (and others) had a much more limited audience.

I'm sure there are those at DCT who retain an affectionate and nostalgic regard for The Beano and The Dandy, but - just like The Topper, The Beezer, Sparky, Hotspur, etc., etc., when they stop making money, sentiment has no place in deciding their fate. If the Dennis TV cartoon series hadn't materialised, perhaps the Beano would be in an even less secure (relatively speaking) position that it is at the moment. Even the two big companies in the States, Marvel and DC, only keep their comic line going because of the merchandise opportunities that follow from keeping their characters in print and in the public eye.

******

Howdy-doody, THB - good to see you here too.

[Digifiend]

You know, I think it would be a good idea to try and put more characters into animation. Outside of the two Beano Videos, the only characters to have achieved this are Dennis and Gnasher (twice) and Bananaman (who's been popular enough to survive two comic closures, Nutty and Dandy). Bananaman's series was 30 years ago, imagine what they could do with him nowadays. The Beano Video format could easily work as a cartoon anthology TV series, similar to the format of the old CITV show Zzzap (except animated not live action obviously).

[Gilly]

I've always thought The Bash Street Kids would make a good animated cartoon due to all the different characters.

It would also be good for me to see Desperate Dan in animation but the problem for some people is they like to imagine how certain characters sound in the comics and the cartoons kind of spoil it.

[TwoHeadedBoy]

the problem for some people is they like to imagine how certain characters sound in the comics and the cartoons kind of spoil it.

Agreed with that - much as I loved those Beano videos, I HATED Dennis's voice.

Anyone remember that other Dennis the Menace TV show from 1990? Puppets for the characters with computer animated backgrounds? This is the only image I've been able to find of it, would love to see it one day...



Oh, and this one, sort of:

[Digifiend]

I've always thought The Bash Street Kids would make a good animated cartoon due to all the different characters.

It would also be good for me to see Desperate Dan in animation but the problem for some people is they like to imagine how certain characters sound in the comics and the cartoons kind of spoil it.

Desperate Dan already has that problem, he was voiced in the Digital Dandy.

[TwoHeadedBoy]

I remember a TV advert for the Dandy with Dan playing rugby, and at the end he said "It's fun to keep a Dandy handy". His voice was... okay, more or less how I'd imagine it.