Beano - new direction? *** locked ***

[Kid Robson]

the problem for some people is they like to imagine how certain characters sound in the comics and the cartoons kind of spoil it.

Agreed with that - much as I loved those Beano videos, I HATED Dennis's voice.

Anyone remember that other Dennis the Menace TV show from 1990? Puppets for the characters with computer animated backgrounds? This is the only image I've been able to find of it, would love to see it one day...



Oh, and this one, sort of:

Just look at how funny the characters look, especially Mum & Dad. The new versions are nowhere near as visually comical as the iconic originals, in my view. Do the editors really think that kids won't buy The Beano because the characters' parents are too old-lookibg for readers to relate to? Kids don't think like that, it's an adult perception.

[Raven]

Just look at how funny the characters look, especially Mum & Dad. The new versions are nowhere near as visually comical as the iconic originals, in my view. Do the editors really think that kids won't buy The Beano because the characters' parents are too old-lookibg for readers to relate to?

It always seemed to be me that the whole point was that the parents represented adults of the authoritarian, self-disciplined, rational, ordered, old-fashioned kind, a comedy counterpoint to the recklessly uninhibited Dennis's ebullient and spontaneous high spirits, and that it was crucial to the comedy dynamics of Dennis's world that their looks and behaviour had to embody this, based on the timeless, proven understanding that kids like seeing stuffy authority figures being beleaguered by kids.

Kids don't think like that, it's an adult perception.

Even more specifically, it's perhaps a marketing person's perception, rather than a comedy writer's.

[ajsmith]

the problem for some people is they like to imagine how certain characters sound in the comics and the cartoons kind of spoil it.

Agreed with that - much as I loved those Beano videos, I HATED Dennis's voice.

Anyone remember that other Dennis the Menace TV show from 1990? Puppets for the characters with computer animated backgrounds? This is the only image I've been able to find of it, would love to see it one day...



Oh, and this one, sort of:

I remember a Tv listings mag running a photo of this at the time with the caption "Britain's answer to The Simpsons?" - not sure how sarcastic they were being...

[Lew Stringer]

Even more specifically, it's perhaps a marketing person's perception, rather than a comedy writer's.

For comedy to work it's often good to have some truth in it. The fathers of today's young kids don't sit around the house in suits, or have comb-overs or little moustaches. That stereotype was spot on in the 1950s to 1970s, and even to an extent in the 80s. But it was pushing it a bit by the 1990s and not relevant at all today. I'd imagine it would distract and confuse an 8 year old today. (They could be thinking "Why does Dennis' dad look old enough to be his grandad? And why's he wearing a suit? Is he going somewhere important?")

For better or worse, the "authority figure dad" has been replaced by the "best pal dad" in society. Kids interact with their dads more now than they used to. Fathers are often younger than they used to be (or certainly dress and act younger) so it makes sense for children's comics to reflect that. (And to send it up. The revamped Dennis' Dad is certainly written as a funnier character than he has been for years. There's only so much mileage in "stern dad" and I think The Beano exhausted it over the last 60 years.)

[Raven]

For better or worse, the "authority figure dad" has been replaced by the "best pal dad" in society. Kids interact with their dads more now than they used to. Fathers are often younger than they used to be (or certainly dress and act younger) so it makes sense for children's comics to reflect that.

Yes, but we're talking comedy archetypes here, rather than a reflection of reality, and a best pal or trendy dad wrecks the long-standing comedy dynamic of Dennis's world, which is basically Dionysian force of uninhibited, spontaneous expression (Dennis) vs. Apollonian forces of discipline, restraint and order (adults), isn't it, which is the battle of all kids. That's classic and timeless. Haven't comics always been a kind of self-contained, symbolic, comedy universe rather than a reflection of reality? Attempts at updated "relevance" can be gnashing up the wrong tree here.

I think you could definitely question whether that exact pin-striped suit and trilby of the Fifties advertising agency job are still right, though they're quite good in the sense that they're funny (would you put Donald Duck in a hoodie, as kids no longer wear sailor outfits?), but sometimes people forget that these things - like the teacher's mortar board - were not necessarily regularly found back in the day; it's about what they represent, and Dad or Teacher wearing something archaic clearly gave the message that they were archaic.

It's the personalities that are most important, though, and Dennis's struggle has always been against the self-discipline and authority of the (adult) world. Parents are the people who stop kids doing what they want, and from being themselves without inhibition.

There's only so much mileage in "stern dad" and I think The Beano exhausted it over the last 60 years.)

Today's kids haven't been reading it for 60 years, though, and it's a timeless set up, really.

[Digifiend]

There are still other authority figures though. As well as his Dad, Dennis also faces the wrath of his teacher, Mrs Creecher, his neighbour, the Colonel, and local cop Sergeant Slipper. And that's not forgetting the person even Dad is afraid of. Mum.

[Raven]

There are still other authority figures though. As well as his Dad, Dennis also faces the wrath of his teacher, Mrs Creecher, his neighbour, the Colonel, and local cop Sergeant Slipper.

In the classic Dennis set-up, Dad was always the most important authority figure, though, representing Dennis's ultimate nemesis, wasn't he, for a good reason - it had a special resonance with children because parents are the most important figures for laying down the ground rules of how to conform in respectable society.

I'm not sure I've seen the new Mum in action, though.

[Lew Stringer]

(would you put Donald Duck in a hoodie, as kids no longer wear sailor outfits?)

Different type of character. If a kid can accept a world of humanized talking ducks then a sailor suit is the last thing they'd worry about. Having said that, it's been a long time since there was a Donald Duck comic on the shelves of UK newsagents, but Dennis the Menace is still around.

Today's kids haven't been reading it for 60 years, though, and it's a timeless set up, really.

Except it's not that timeless, for the reasons I gave previously.

It's not as though The Beano is a stranger to relevance and shifting attitudes is it? Had it stuck to old fashioned comedy stereotypes we'd have never had Dennis in there in the first place and The Beano would have been about comedy tramps like its A.P. rivals.

In the classic Dennis set-up, Dad was always the most important authority figure, though, representing Dennis's ultimate nemesis, wasn't he, for a good reason - it had a special resonance with children because parents are the most important figures for laying down the ground rules of how to conform in respectable society.

And yet even with the changes the strip is still funny. That's all a reader cares about, surely?

[Raven]

Having said that, it's been a long time since there was a Donald Duck comic on the shelves of UK newsagents, but Dennis the Menace is still around.

That could be down to licensing issues: his comics still sell in European countries in figures UK comic publishers can only dream of, and he's a central character in Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, etc. ... but all that's beside the point, really, rather than addressing the essence of what I was saying.

Except it's not that timeless, for the reasons I gave previously.

The uninhibited exuberance of kids v. the discipline imposed by parents (who will always seem rather old-fashioned to their children) isn't a timeless set-up?

It's not as though The Beano is a stranger to relevance and shifting trends is it? Had it stuck to old fashioned comedy stereotypes we'd have never had Dennis in there in the first place and The Beano would have been about comedy tramps like its A.P. rivals.

We're talking about about archetypes, though: recurrent symbols and motifs, and the repressive parental/adult authority figure is a timeless one, rather different from Tired Tim and Weary Willie who were stereotypes of hoboes, specific to a certain time period (though the underdog outsider is an archetype).

You can muck about with the classic structure of things that have worked for decades, and the result may be amusing in different ways, but I'd agree with Kid that doing it because the readers won't be able to "relate" to the former set-up would probably be misguided.

[Lew Stringer]

The uninhibited exuberance of kids v. the discipline imposed by parents (who will always seem rather old-fashioned to their kids) isn't a timeless set-up?

But that still exists in the strip. I was simply pointing out how they'd modernized it to move with the times. I presume you do read the comic regularly?

[Raven]

But that still exists in the strip. I was simply pointing out how they'd modernized it to move with the times. I presume you do read the comic regularly?

Sometimes, not regularly, but I'm specifically talking about the changing of the Dad figure. When I've seen him, it seemed an attempt to make him younger and a little more empathetic with Dennis, as opposed to the old, archaic Dad who, as Dennis's nemesis in every way, gave Dennis his comedic raison d'être.

I've been thinking about Dennis a bit since recently rereading the 1974 Book, which reprints pre-Gnasher strips, and being impressed with how well realised its world is, and how well crafted the scripts are, but I don't think I have anything else to add to the Dad issue.

[Kid Robson]

"And yet even with the changes the strip is still funny. That's all a reader cares about, surely?" (Lew Stringer.)


Exactly the point. The strip being funny is all that the readers care about. Therefore it's really rather pointless changing a 50-odd years look to accommodate the perceived and mistaken notion by would-be trendy editors that what Dennis and Roger need most of all to appeal to a wider audience is younger-looking parents.

In trying to be 'with it', they merely demonstrate how out of touch they are with the characters. It's a change which amounts to nothing more than 'change for change's sake', despite the stated intentions.

[Lew Stringer]

Exactly the point. The strip being funny is all that the readers care about. Therefore it's really rather pointless changing a 50-odd years look to accommodate the perceived and mistaken notion by would-be trendy editors that what Dennis and Roger need most of all to appeal to a wider audience is younger-looking parents.

Well, you're assuming it's a mistake. Time will tell. The changes to Dad were made months ago. Presumably the young kids buying The Beano are used to him by now. And the point of updating Dad was something I explained earlier; the old Dad just didn't look or act like a Dad of today. And since The Beano is primarily aimed at children it made sense to update him.

But that's not all they've done to appeal to a new generation is it? New writer with a different style and rhythm to the humour on Dennis. That's what stood out the most to me. I liked it personally. Hope the readers will too.

[Digifiend]

They even used that change in a joke last week. You can never change your appearance in a comic, Dennis says. Cut to his Dad saying "What?".

And by the way, Kid, Roger's Dad was reverted back to the grey haired moustached version last week when Jamie Smart took over art duties from Barrie Appleby.

[Kid Robson]

They even used that change in a joke last week. You can never change your appearance in a comic, Dennis says. Cut to his Dad saying "What?".

And by the way, Kid, Roger's Dad was reverted back to the grey haired moustached version last week when Jamie Smart took over art duties from Barrie Appleby.

Well, to me, that's a bit like being told your terminal illness is in remission and then being run over and killed by a bus as you leave the doctor's.