How could the Dandy save itself?

[Old Freddy]

Hmm. I don't think that there's much of a choice in comics/magazines for kids these days. We have The Beano, the Beanomax, The Dandy Xtreme, Toxic, and most of the rest are Brand names, like the Spongebob Comic, Thomas the tank engine & Friends (Which also has at least one spinoff) Disney, Cars and Cartoon Network. Most of the Comics based on TV shows/channels aren't really much cop to be honest. There seems to be more use of using episodes from the TV show rather than original episodes in the Spongebob and TTTE comics. Also, most of the spongebob episodes in the comic are reprints from other magazines.

The Dandy Xtreme isn't selling very well. People seem to be disgusted that a 70 year comic has suddenly turned into a magazine. Perhaps if the Dandy Xtreme disappeared from shelves for a while, then, return as either a comic or a magazine that's more like the BeanoMax with more comics than articles. People might bother to buy it then, because it's got its fair share of comic strips, and Old Favourites. like I suggested before, Beryl the Peril could merge with Dinah Mo or something. We need a consistant lineup of strips for the Dandy. Like how the Beano has had Dennis the Menace, Minnie theminx, Roger the Dodger and the Bash Street Kids from the 50s, The dandy could have Winker watson, the Smasher and Bully Beef & Chips from the 50s/60s. Another possible return could be Korky the Cat, since he was the original star.

If something doesn't happen, the Dandy could become extinct. And there isn't much choice in comics these days, or not like how there used to be. People Don't seem to buy the Brand named comics because some of them are rubbish.

[Digifiend]

When Cuddles merged with Dimples, Dimples was already in The Dandy while Cuddles had been cover star of the just folded Hoot. When Bea and Ivy merged, both were ongoing in Beano. That won't be the case with Dinah Mo and Beryl, Dinah hasn't appeared for about 15 years!

[Lew Stringer]

The Dandy Xtreme isn't selling very well. People seem to be disgusted that a 70 year comic has suddenly turned into a magazine. Perhaps if the Dandy Xtreme disappeared from shelves for a while, then, return as either a comic or a magazine that's more like the BeanoMax with more comics than articles. People might bother to buy it then, because it's got its fair share of comic strips, and Old Favourites.

Wouldn't DC Thomson lose money during the hiatus?

Anything with "Beano" in the title will outsell The Dandy because Beano is the better known brand. Dandy Xtreme is already like BeanoMax.

As I've said before, The Dandy / Dandy Xtreme is aimed at children. Whether or not old collectors are dismayed by the changes is irrelevant. Thomsons aren't likely to change it back to suit a dozen people who post here.

Lew

[Old Freddy]

I'm aware it's aimed at children, but there are a lot of kids out there who don't like the current dandy and would kill to see the old one again, not that the old one is ever going to return. The thing is kids don't have the big choice of comics like they did 30 years ago. their only choice is the Beano, the BeanoMax, the Dandy Xtreme, Toxic and a load of Brand named comics that aren't much cop. It's getting difficult for the Dandy Xtreme to sell. We're in a time where recession is ripping the world. The Dandy may sell better when this recession is over & done with but using "Bogeys" and making stupid jokes which not even a 5 year old will laugh at is kinda insulting the intelligance of the target market by accident, but that's beside the point. Since the 21st century there's been a lot more use of toilet humour in kids entertainment which isn't a smooth move at all. It's one of the things that made "My Gym Partner's a monkey" so terrible. It's just sad that many people think kids will laugh at anything. It never used to be like that. The children of today do not have to be stupid, but with a lot of the kids' entertainment going downhill, and the way preschool showsare created to babysit children, some might become far less intelligant than they're capable of.

The dandy of today isn't atrocious, but could be improved if just a little modification was made.

[Lew Stringer]

I'm aware it's aimed at children, but there are a lot of kids out there who don't like the current dandy and would kill to see the old one again,

I'd be interested in any research done in this area but the only complaints I've seen are mostly from adults bemoaning that things aren't like they used to be.

not that the old one is ever going to return. The thing is kids don't have the big choice of comics like they did 30 years ago. their only choice is the Beano, the BeanoMax, the Dandy Xtreme, Toxic and a load of Brand named comics that aren't much cop.

There are less comics around because kids lost interest in them. The problem was that the "traditional" comics that most people here admired were simply too old fashioned for changing tastes. They didn't change quickly enough to keep their readers.

It's getting difficult for the Dandy Xtreme to sell. We're in a time where recession is ripping the world. The Dandy may sell better when this recession is over & done with but using "Bogeys" and making stupid jokes which not even a 5 year old will laugh at is kinda insulting the intelligance of the target market by accident, but that's beside the point. Since the 21st century there's been a lot more use of toilet humour in kids entertainment which isn't a smooth move at all. It's one of the things that made "My Gym Partner's a monkey" so terrible.

"Toilet humour" will pass, if you'll pardon the pun, but while it's here you can't blame comics for using it.

It's just sad that many people think kids will laugh at anything. It never used to be like that.

Comics used to be full of sailors and tramps falling over. Then they were full of naughty schoolkids playing pranks. See, one can minimize any fad to make it sound mediocre. What these fads do, and I'm including gross humour too, is to set the writers a challenge to turn it into entertainment. It's not as if a strip is solely focused on fart gags. I've been writing/drawing Team Toxic for seven years and I think there's a bit more to it than just toilet humour or it wouldn't have lasted this long.

The children of today do not have to be stupid, but with a lot of the kids' entertainment going downhill, and the way preschool showsare created to babysit children, some might become far less intelligant than they're capable of.

Such has always been the case but I think intelligence will find its outlet. Kids have a knack of moving on from things they find "babyish" pretty quickly. There are lots of intelligently-constructed children's books out there, and entertaining movies, for example. In comic terms a lot of kids read Manga.

The dandy of today isn't atrocious, but could be improved if just a little modification was made.

Again, this is an adult perspective. Truth is thousands of readers still enjoy Xtreme. Every generation has criticised the comics of the next generation. I've used this example before but in my Grandad's opinion Whizzer & Chips wasn't a "proper comic" like the Illustrated Chips he read as a boy in the 19th Century. UK comics have been getting more simplified ever since they began! To modern kids, Dandy Xtreme is a proper comic, and those same kids will be complaining about the state of comics in 30 years time.

Lew

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

cartoons/comics will always be around in SOME sort of format, but what DCT is turning out now is too 'samey' to material freely available on the net: the strength of traditional comics in the 'boom' years was that they never followed existing trends: they offered up their own unique alternative world, which most readers recognized, and latched onto....

------ UK 'funnies' comics today are too 'consumerist' and trying to please the lowest common denominator: fine in the short term, but not a good long-term policy.

I'm certain that comics will be a force to be reckoned with at some time in the future, but it doesn't seem to be 'happening' at present.

[Jonny Whizz]

When they made the most recent Wallace and Gromit film (A Matter of Loaf and Death), Nick Park (Beano and Dandy fan, remember) explained the battles he and the rest of the Aardman Animations team had to fight with the massive American studio DreamWorks. He said they thought that W&G, who are set in the same sort of world as the Beano and Dandy, should have a more modern car like a pickup truck as opposed to an Austin A35. Nick made the point that Wallace and Gromit was 'cool because it wasn't cool'. I think this is something that British comics could learn from; after all, comics that try to be cool are often seen as being totally UNcool!

[Lew Stringer]

cartoons/comics will always be around in SOME sort of format, but what DCT is turning out now is too 'samey' to material freely available on the net: the strength of traditional comics in the 'boom' years was that they never followed existing trends: they offered up their own unique alternative world, which most readers recognized, and latched onto....

In what way is the humour of Jamie Smart's Desperate Dan or Laura Howell's Ratz or Gary Northfield's Derek the Sheep "samey", to name just three DCT strips? I'm sure there are similar styles of humour online but that's to be expected. For example, the humour style of Fifties comics was the same as radio humour of the period. Comics have always been contemporary.

British comics were always formularised. The true movers and shakers that changed the industry in a big way have been few and far between. (Comic Cuts, Eagle, Dandy/Beano, 2000AD, Viz, and.....?)

As for "traditional" comics not imitating other media... surely Amalgamated Press' golden years were all about imitating the slapstick humour of silent screen comedies? (Although as Charlie Chaplin apparently said he based his tramp outfit on Weary Willie and Tired Tim, perhaps comics had a stronger influence on movies than we might think. *)

I agree it's a shame comics can't be trendsetters more often, but it's more difficult than ever to achieve that now, with supermarkets calling the shots.

Lew

* “Deep, psychological stuff has
been written about how I meant him to be a symbol
of all the class war, of the love-hate concept, the death-
wish, and what-all. But if you want the simple Chaplin
truth behind the Chaplin legend, I started the little tramp
simply to make people laugh and because those other
tramps, Weary Willie and Tired Tim, had always made
me laugh.”
- Charlie Chaplin

[Digifiend]

Northfield owns Derek the Sheep, not DC Thomson. The other two artists mentioned also write their own strips, although obviously in Jamie Smart's case, he didn't create the character (although she wasn't the original artist, Laura Howell did create Ratz, and she was always the writer).

Those were bad examples I'm afraid. Think of strips which were created in house by Thomsons and are written by staff writers (though the artists may be in house or freelance).

[Lew Stringer]

Northfield owns Derek the Sheep, not DC Thomson.

Did I say otherwise?

The other two artists mentioned also write their own strips, although obviously in Jamie Smart's case, he didn't create the character (although she wasn't the original artist, Laura Howell did create Ratz, and she was always the writer).

Those were bad examples I'm afraid. Think of strips which were created in house by Thomsons and are written by staff writers (though the artists may be in house or freelance).

No, they were good examples because they proved my point. If you're going to move the goalposts I'm sure you'll eventually get the result you want.

Lew

[NP]

I wonder how many of these posters have bothered to actually BUY a Dandy Xtreme recently? Or ever? Frankly guys, if you're going to make a case, try getting your facts at least reasonably straight; the thought of those murderous kids rampaging around crazed for the Old Dandy they never knew and have have never seen and Laura creating and writing a strip age 11 which she would return to (a few) years later are just bizarre. Here's a crazy notion; buy Dandy Xtreme, give it a read. If you don't like it, it's probably because you're too old for it. It's for Kids, like it ALWAYS has been. If you like it, fine, if you don't, don't worry, there are other publications for you.
Lew; good points, as ever. Don't I owe you a beer?

[Raven]

Here's a crazy notion; buy Dandy Xtreme, give it a read. If you don't like it, it's probably because you're too old for it. It's for Kids, like it ALWAYS has been. If you like it, fine, if you don't, don't worry, there are other publications for you.

So what you're saying, NP, is that Dandy Xtreme is completely beyond criticism? There is no debate to be had because only kids should ever be able to make comment on things aimed at kids? Though Dandy Xtreme doesn't actually sell especially well to kids, does it?

Digifiend makes a good point mentioning Jamie Smart and Gary Northfield as their work is very individualistic and atypical and seems to be coming from somewhere 'outside' traditional mainstream UK comics; it's fresh and original - obviously Jamie's original creations more so than Dan, but even his Dan can seem relatively radical.

And again, if what kids "want" is a magazine-comic, why does The traditional comic format Beano outsell it so enormously?

However, I don't really agree with ISPYSHHHGUY that comics always set the trends - they did often follow on from other media; whether in the days of Radio Fun and Film Fun or TV Comic, or the IPC glory days when many of their strips often took the lead from popular films and TV of the time (eg Jaws - Hookjaw.) Other examples: Baxendale's Little Plum was influenced by Disney's Hiawatha and Bash Street Kids by Giles newspapers cartoons. Comics often seemed to follow the lead from other areas.

[STARBOY]

As always excellent points from Lew and NP - Of course the Dandy and Beano are for kids and always have been (and hey if you get a kick as an adult reading/collecting it go for it). Simply put, this is an childs medium not an adult on. As with all things as we get older we only remember the best bits, your football team beating Real Madrid at home 1-0 (forgetting they beat you 6-0 in the away game) the great songs of the 70s (Bowies "Life on Mare" (to keep a thread going here ) forgetting the Laughing Gnome or bands like Bacarra etc and the great work of Reid, Baxendale , Watkins etc forgeting all the other dross fillers (and rotten paper) we had to waid through. Inthe 70s in fandom folk wer ebemoaning the state of UK comics like th eBeano and Dandy as well yet now folk on here are saying how good they were then (casue they were kids then thats why) plus they'e still here, they must be doing something right and the kids like it.

[Lew Stringer]

Digifiend makes a good point mentioning Jamie Smart and Gary Northfield as their work is very individualistic and atypical and seems to be coming from somewhere 'outside' traditional mainstream UK comics; it's fresh and original - obviously Jamie's original creations more so than Dan, but even his Dan can seem relatively radical.

Actually it was me who mentioned them as individualistic examples, but don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

And again, if what kids "want" is a magazine-comic, why does The traditional comic format Beano outsell it so enormously?

Beano was outselling Dandy enormously when Dandy was still 100% comic. That's why Dandy was revamped in 2004 and again in 2006. It became Xtreme to save the comic, not to destroy it. These decisions aren't made on a whim.

Beano has been the most recognizable British comic title for decades. When the public think of comics they think of The Beano. That's one reason why it's survived as a comic for so long.

Lew

[Raven]

Beano has been the most recognizable British comic title for decades.

Lew

But that means nothing to young kids, to whom *everything* is brand new, and judged entirely on its own merits.