Swearing in The Dandy..

[Nuttyman]

I was looking through my ever-growing collection of comics, when I came across a copy of The Dandy, issue number 2686, and dated May 15th 1993 at the price of 30p. The copy's your average Dandy, until you get to page 5.. in the comic strip Smitten, a french boy lives in the road of Smitten's crush Sally, and asks her out to supper. On the 11th panel, (not including the title) Sally turns down Marcel's supper date by phone. Unbelievably, his reply is quite.. adult, proclaiming in french: "MERDE! PAS DE L'AMOUR POUR MOI!" which in english translates as "sh*t! no love for me!" which is not only bad with the swearing for a children's comic, but the wording as well. The characters are kids, so surely, the Dandy editor must have noticed what the script-writer did.. as was the case with a certain other comic artist.. so I got told a few years ago, anyway!

[swirlythingy]

I've often wondered if foreign swear words actually count as swear words. Apparently, they don't if you're American, and British is considered 'foreign' over there, hence appearances in American 'children's' media of some words which would be outlawed before the watershed over here, but mean nothing to them!

e.g. http://www.theherobiz.com/2011/03/31/co ... bravado03/

[Digifiend]

It means damn. Google has "Merde" as damn, sh*t, crap, poop, and turd. Think of the context. Damn fits better than sh*t in this case IMHO.

EDIT: Strange censorship! the i became a 1, instead of the word getting blanked.

[swirlythingy]

EDIT: Strange censorship! the i became a 1, instead of the word getting blanked.

Obviously not that much of a swearword, then... unlike, say, Postman Pr4t!

[Al]

EDIT: Strange censorship! the i became a 1, instead of the word getting blanked.

Agreed The '1' will now get replaced with an '*'.

[AndyB]

La merde is literally sh*t, or it was when I was at school!

[Phoenix]

La merde is literally sh*t, or it was when I was at school!

That is its literal translation, Andy, but it isn't being used that way. In fact, Digi is nearer the mark with damn as its meaning in this context. Language specialists can easily give many an example of words that were offensive once upon a time, but which over time have lost most of their capacity to offend, and are now pretty harmless, although perhaps not yet acceptable in your posh drawing rooms.

[Raven]

But in that context it means "sh*t" as in "oh sh*t!" as in damn, but I think it's a stronger expletive than the latter, and I'm surprised it was in The Dandy!

[Phoenix]

But in that context it means "sh*t" as in "oh sh*t!" as in damn, but I think it's a stronger expletive than the latter

Seeing as you disagree with me, Raven, could you please outline your thought processes that led you to this conclusion. My Collins Robert French Dictionary (5th edition [1997]) gives lots of examples of the use of merde, many of which clearly indicate that the word is routinely used in situations where in English we might use crap, hell, bloody hell, damn, bollo**s, for heaven's sake and, of course, sh*t. However, the strength of the word depends on the context in which it is used, so, for example, if your car breaks down your anger might lead you to say, Quelle voiture de merde!, which could be rendered in English as What a shi**y car! or even What a fu**ing awful car! On the other hand, a statement such as Ils sont venus pour foutre la merde would be rendered in English as just They came to cause trouble. Il ne m'arrive que des merdes is I've had one bloody problem after another, and Tu as de la merde dans les yeux? is simply Are you blind or what? Let's look at the situation in Nuttyman's comic strip, difficult for me since I have never seen any Smitten strip. I am, therefore, making some assumptions. It sounds as though a young French boy called Marcel fancies a young English girl called Sally, and invites her out to supper. I take it that this is to suggest the Frenchness of Marcel, the idea that this is how they do this sort of thing in France, to give him a kind of aura of sophistication. Sally turns him down, so Marcel is sad, possibly exasperated when he says Merde! Pas de l'amour pour moi! The strength of the word merde is determined by his disappointment, based on how he had imagined the evening panning out. Now my sensitivities are leaning towards flowers, a few hearts drawn in the relevant panels, and possibly a chaste kiss on the cheek, but definitely no fumblings or leg-overs. This is The Dandy after all. Marcel's use of the word merde must therefore be seen as much less aggressive than it would have been if he had dropped an anvil on his foot. Regarding its use in The Dandy, I venture to suggest that the great majority of the comic's readership would not understand it anyway, although there is always the chance that the children's parents or older siblings might tell them. Regardless of the age range of its readers (5-8?, 6-9?) I don't see its use as in any way a problem. Those who disagree with me could always consult MikeD, but there isn't really any point because he would only tell you that the artist is pushing the boundaries. A request. Could someone please post the strip so that we can all see it.

[-MikeD-]

Those who disagree with me could always consult MikeD, but there isn't really any point because he would only tell you that the artist is pushing the boundaries.

la merde..!

[Raven]

But in that context it means "sh*t" as in "oh sh*t!" as in damn, but I think it's a stronger expletive than the latter

Seeing as you disagree with me, Raven, could you please outline your thought processes that led you to this conclusion.

I'd just picked up on it being considered a stronger swear word through various associations with seeing it used over the years.

It's hard to actually dredge all these little things up (and we're already bordering on contravening Al's new forum rule "3: Do not go out of your way to prove a point (this is not a court of law!)", but one example that springs to mind is the audience reaction in the Monty Python sketch when Mrs Premise rings Mrs. Jean-Paul Sartre, and slips in an "oh merde!"

[philcom55]

In some ways I agree with Raven that, although 'merde!' might only be used as a mild expression of frustration in this context, a comparable use of 'sh*t!' would never be permitted in the Dandy.

On the other hand, 'oh crap!' - which also has the same literal meaning - is far more likely to be overlooked (though I doubt if even that would have been allowed by DC Thomson in one of their juvenile publications).

To be honest I'm buggered if I know what it is that makes some words merely amusing yet places others beyond the pale...!

- Phil R.

[swirlythingy]

I'm also posting this with one eye on rule 3, but in one 2004-7 Dandy (an incarnation not exactly known for U-rated humour) there was a Jak strip parodying the proverbial 'banned episodes' of kiddie TV shows, and one panel had Star Wars-style text describing them as living in 'Crapopolis'. I was quite surprised that was allowed.

This has also been quite an education in the Comics UK rudies filter. I presume all those words were actually typed in full? (Test: b*****ks, sh*t, f***. Hmm - it shows in the preview but not the edit box. What happens if I post then click quote? EDIT: Doubly fascinating - they get censored when quoted but not when I click 'Edit'. Is the idea that only I should be able to see them? Oh, and does this f***ing old trick work? Hah, no, it doesn't - empty BBCode gets automatically stripped. How about this: Scunthorpe. ***t. Nice - whoever coded this had their head screwed on straight, for once! Tangentially related note: I feel for the prospective residents of Sweetwater.)

[Phoenix]

we're already bordering on contravening Al's new forum rule "3: Do not go out of your way to prove a point (this is not a court of law!

I'm not going out of my way, Raven. I am merely providing what I hope is a clear explanation based on experience, my knowledge of French, and the possession of an excellent dictionary.

[Phoenix]

In some ways I agree with Raven that, although 'merde!' might only be used as a mild expression of frustration in this context.....

Raven never said that. I did.

.....a comparable use of 'sh*t!' would never be permitted in the Dandy.

I agree with this point, but Raven never said it.