comics on c-d rom

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

Niblet wrote:

The companies need to sort this out soon; us survivors from comics' boom years will soon be heading off to the great slap-up feed in the sky - this is their last chance to wring some cash out of the gems languishing in their warehouses.

But they won't Niblet despite lobbying from this and other fora. It is just not feasible both from an economic point of view and the time involved in professional scanning and cleaning. Also the pick up from the public would be so small as to be almost negligible. We are a small niche group , perhaps in the small thousands. The next best thing is enthusiasts sites. For the record , all these paper comics will be dust and so will we in the far future. It does make more sense for the companies to digitally preserve them to enhance their longevity . But the truth is , that even they don't have full complete runs of certain titles. Of course if they asked nicely ...cough...cough...




sincerely,

The Cap.

Yes, even after my own delving into home-made scanning/restorations [see I SPY example above] I can attest that it takes ages to clean up elements direct from actual comic copies. The results are plain for any enthusiasts to see, however.


BUT! If any publishing house still has warehouses filled with original-sized inked artwork, then this stuff could be scanned relatively quickly and economically, to strike up freshly-minted cd-roms that could be bought and appreciated by a wider audience. D C Thomson appear to already do this in their reprint volumes; although I notice that even here, some of their more ancient archive pages are clearly scans of yellowing old copies. But even this has it's inherent charms, and would be a lot better than nothing.

Lower-grade dvd-roms sourced directly from comic-copy scans, where no exhaustive amounts of decent original artwork still exists, like Odhams stuff, would be naturally cheaper to produce though: the old comics are usually fairly expensive on e-bay. Time has not been kind to the few copies of these I own, so a basic dvd-rom of this stuff would do me personally preferrably legal!



Trying to put together a decent archive of Odhams material, for example, would yield poorer source materials, since I assume the majority of the original artwork is long-lost or even deliberately destroyed---no-one could seriously expect much other than a plainly adequate cyber-gallery of this sort of stuff. It's such a shame that a top-notch representation of such fascinating material [in any format] is not likely to ever happen: consigned to the scrap-heap of history, and our collective memories. After that, when us enthusiasts are gone, I assume the likes of 60s Odhams will be heading for ALMOST-TOTAL OBSCURITY.

At least a dvd-rom collection of WHAM! SMASH! and POW! would ensure that someone, somewhere, in the 22nd Century and beyond, would know that these comics actually existed. The way things stand at the moment is being appreciated only by only the select few enthusiasts, who are sadly a dying breed........


Higher-quality sourced artwork would fare a lot better, like the glossy papered TV21 [sorry to keep harping on about this title, readers] a lot of which probably exists in original artwork format [though likely a lot of this stuff is in the hands of collectors]. However even scanning direct from glossier comics would surely yield more than acceptable quality, certainly in comparison to archive Odhams or 1969-era WHIZZER and CHIPS, for example.

[stevezodiac]

Slightly off topic but I've been reading volume 1 of the Hulk Essentials and noticed some of the stories were really poorly reproduced - some word balloons were practically unreadable. I would have thought Marvel could have found better reproduction sources somewhere among comic fandom - indeed at least one of the stories is available in pristine black and white form in our own Smash! albeit with the panels rearranged for the bigger sized comic. But imagine the fun putting it back into its original form. Are the Essential volumes reproduced from original art where possible?

[Captain Storm]

Phoenix wrote:

Perhaps we'll both come back less tetchy.

Phoenix , will you marry me?

The Cap.

See what happens when you don't use smilies

[NP]

... I've been reading volume 1 of the Hulk Essentials and noticed some of the stories were really poorly reproduced - some word balloons were practically unreadable. I would have thought Marvel could have found better reproduction sources somewhere among comic fandom - indeed at least one of the stories is available in pristine black and white form in our own Smash! albeit with the panels rearranged for the bigger sized comic. But imagine the fun putting it back into its original form. Are the Essential volumes reproduced from original art where possible?

No, Essentials are very cheaply produced from photostats and even from copies of the comics. The hardback 'Masterworks' series do source from better materials, even sometimes painstakingly recreating artwork if no better source is extant. The worst Essentials is probably The Avengers Vol 2 where dozens of pages are poorly reproduced from comics pages. When Marvel reprinted 'Spidey Battles Scorpy' in 1984 they proclaimed it was the first time it had been reprinted since the original comic (that wasn't true, it had been printed in POW! a few years later) because the original artwork and the original bromide copies from 1965 had been lost. They took a printed comic and, using cutting edge 1980s laser copying, filtered out most of the colour, retouched it, relettered some of the captions and presented it anew. They could have copied the crisp black and white reprint in POW! but I guess that was too easy.

[Captain Storm]

I SPy wrote:

ensure that someone, somewhere, in the 22nd Century and beyond, would know that these comics actually existed.

That is the idea behind scanning essentially. It may be scorned by some quarters , but it is really the only option of preserving our comics history. The big publishing houses and all current copyright holders have no intention of doing anything on this scale. These comics were sold in their millions back in the day ; everybody got their cut and they moved on. Nobody ever , and I mean ever , thought that we would be debating what was principally throwaway entertainment 40 or 50 years later! You read a comic and it was used to light the fire or wrapped around a fish supper down at the local chippy a few days later. Harsh , but true. So a few renegades for absolutely no profit whatsoever scan the comics out of a sense of caring and sharing. Not legal to be sure , but if it isn't done , then all we will be able to do is talk about them without any visual reference in time to come. So I think our children's children will thank these outlaws. So we arrive at a crux - damned if we do and damned if we don't. It's right and wrong at the same time. Now there's food for thought. As a closing statement , I am not referring to the scanning of new comics.

The Cap.

[Phoenix]

Phoenix , will you marry me? See what happens when you don't use smilies

I have reconsidered some of my earlier comments, Cap, and somehow I think you are more in need of a couple of weeks in therapy than the many scoops of Guinness I suggested you get down you. Perhaps a combination of the two suggestions?

That is the idea behind scanning essentially. It may be scorned by some quarters , but it is really the only option of preserving our comics history.

I'm preserving in my cupboards and drawers the parts of British comics history that have mattered to me the most over the years, not because having them saves me the bother of constant visits to the British Library, but because I actually love every one of those story papers and comics, and I am always looking forward to the pleasure I get when I reread them.

[Captain Storm]

Hi Pheonix , phew , thank god you didn't accept my proposal. Now that would have been awkward I mean , what would I tell the wife and screamers?

I gather what you are saying vis a vis a personal collection. And to be honest it is more tangible. But I am referring to the greater good in the long term. Which has to be more honourable surely. But I know some peoples feelings on the subject and well , C'est la vie. Blogs and web sites on comics abound because there is a demand for them. But of course this doesn't translate into real time sales when it comes to reprint reissues. None of them top the best seller lists. Perhaps it's the choice of material? Who knows. We all have our favourites and perhaps the public just hasn't been served the product it wants. For example , a Spellbinder anthology or something along the lines of Kelly's Eye with Doc Diamond or a complete run of Toby comic. Perhaps D.C. Thomson could poll its readers through its website or in the inside back page of Commando , one of the last still standing greats from its glorious past? A pipe dream I know , but until a better alternative is put out there , scanners will do what scanners will do. And while I'm here , what is it with your desire to pour copious amounts of Guinness down my neck

The Cap.

[Phoenix]

And while I'm here , what is it with your desire to pour copious amounts of Guinness down my neck

As an aid to relaxation, a method of stress and tetchiness removal, nothing more. It is clear to me that you are still in need. See below.

Hi Pheonix , phew , thank god you didn't accept my proposal.

Quite apart from your constantly-repeated error of creating a gap before you use a comma, you have misspelt my username and failed to provide God with the capital letter that his status as a proper noun deserves, regardless of whether He exists or not. (smilies used for clarification purposes, and to express humour in advance, in case you are of a mind, now that I have turned you down flat, to offer my hand in marriage to any of your friends or acquaintances, always assuming you have any, of course).

[Lew Stringer]

Scans are all well and good but what happens when Blogger goes bust, or a flash drive fails? (I'm presuming these scanners/pirates have numerous backups of their data?)

I think most comic collectors will continue to do what they have done for the past 100 plus years, which is to collect and save the physical comics. (And, looked after, old comics will still survive for a good few years yet.) The idea of "sharing" copies is a relatively new one and whilst such an act is generous it also brings with it a sense of entitlement that sometimes strays into aggressiveness. (I'm not talking about anyone here by the way. It's more noticeable on U.S. comic forums.)

Yes, even after my own delving into home-made scanning/restorations [see I SPY example above] I can attest that it takes ages to clean up elements direct from actual comic copies. The results are plain for any enthusiasts to see, however.

Each to his own of course but I'm curious as to why you'd need to clean up scans that aren't for print purposes. I'd have thought that for the sole purpose of reading them on your PC it'd be best to leave the scans as they were, showing yellowing paper, woodchips and all, for authenticity?

[Captain Storm]

I must admit that what started off as a bit of fun has now degenerated into cold speculation. The charge that I have no friends is very unsettling. And I am deeply hurt by this change in tact. The additional charge that I did not apply a capitol letter to God is interesting. To say that this post is going off on a tangent is redundant. That ship has now sailed. I freely admit that I am both surprised and hurt in equal measure. Life is short and I will move swiftly along from this. Suffice to say , I am retiring from this site. I was here when there was literally only me and Al conversing about comics and the hopes of the new site. But that was then and this is now. So my thanks to all the posters over the course of the last 12 years and before. Much knowledge was exchanged and I made many online friends. Some of whom I hope to be in contact with for a long time to come. Along the lines of scan sharing , I know that some US scanners are a pain , but any British ones that I have encountered have been nothing but generous , thoughtful and extremely helpful with both their time and knowledge. As I hope I have been. So it only remains for me to say a million thanks to all the members of ComicsUK. It's been a great 12 years. We started off with so little and now look at us! Best for the future. Farewell ....


The Cap R.I.P.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Phoenix]

I must admit that what started off as a bit of fun has now degenerated.........../............Best for the future. Farewell ....

Just a little too much pathos there, Cap. You nearly had me believing you were serious. Others may well be taken in. Clearly we need a wider range of smilies to help us indicate more clearly those apparently serious comments that do not stand out as such as well as we would prefer them to do, and which, as a consequence, may well be misunderstood.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

Lew: I intend printing out large-scale blow-up copies of my favourite I SPY artwork from 43 years ago, and getting these large prints up and onto the walls.


If you really look at 600 dpi scans of old comics on computer, there's lots of noticable grain and other 'defects' that are painfully obvious: I'm often content to pore through the original comics, but I see the benefits of sharpening up old artwork---the difference 'before and after' is chalk-and-cheese. I 'll see if I can dig out before-and-after examples for you soon, I assure you it is possible to radically improve old comics [if the only source materials you have are the comic copies themselves] artwork using any domestic image-manipulation program.

A strip like I SPY obviously has a lot of rich black inking, and although the higher-quality paper annual stories are still fine, the lower-grade newsprint paper used by DCT in our day for the weekly comics is slowly deteriorating, [even though my copies were derived from someone who clearly looked after them] and if you look really closely, there's white specks appearing on the black elements of the artwork, which will likely get worse over time.

Modern scanning techniques mean it's pretty simple to isolate an I SPY character pose and strike a 'negative": from this, you can paint out the white specks and when this is done, you have a character image that is rich and black, a lot closer to Les Barton's original version.

Although this sort of restoration can be a bit tedious, I enjoy getting a good look at the artwork in extreme close-up, and I get satisfaction from the fact I'm probably the only person on the planet who is bothering to restore this stuff [though I am an amateur enthusiast] and hopefully I will assemble the most sharply-defined copies of this artwork other than the original bristol-board inkings. The 'restored' versions I put together are visually more hard-hitting than looking at the original comics version, there is no question----you see more detail, and it looks brand-new.


It's the difference between VHS and blu-ray, applied to the comics medium. I deliberately leave in 'defects' like impurities around the word-balloons, this could be removed easily but I prefer to leave this alone.


I get what you are saying about 'why bother if it isn't for reprint purposes' and if someone were to pay me to do this I'd be more than happy, but sadly no-one else anywhere [including DCT] is likely going to bother doing this, and I'm doing it for my own satisfaction----I just do it bit-by-bit, though---I have other interests in life.


I also prefer looking at artwork in stark black-and white: to me it's more like looking at the original artwork, yellowing copies are fine, but you can 'improve' the artwork further I discovered, if you can be bothered to make the effort.

Whether anyone anywhere will be actually interested in crystal-clear I SPY artwork after I'm gone is quite another matter, though!

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

OK, Lew, firstly, here's a close-up of an I SPY page I am currently sharpening up. The artwork has been 'de-yellowed', but we still have a lot of noticable grain on the black elements, as seen in this title-heading:





Next here's a 'partially-restored' frame, from the same page: I SPY himself has been isolated using a lassoo-tool on GIMP to make a 'negative'. All the white specks then read black, and are easy to paint out manually . Once you revert to 'positive' the results are more consistent, without harming the original comics or artwork. The fleeing rats and other black areas will also be 'blackened up'

The background elements are still a bit discoloured, but this too can be altered in the computer.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

This page is almost finished [see painful yellow bits at the end, awaiting removal]:




Here's what the original comic looks like in 'real life' [and my copies are well-preserved!]:

[George Shiers]

Why don't you try scanning the page in black and white (can usually be found under "profile settings" or something). It might not work but it's worth a try - and if it does it'll speed it up hugely!