comics on c-d rom

[dandy mad]

Has any DC Thomson stuff been put on a compact disk officially/unofficially comic/story paper/annual wise?

[Digifiend]

A victimless crime, which has been proven in court after a company was sued for producing Roy of the Rovers trainers. The judge ruled that Egmont had done nothing over a significant time to preserve his value. Fine around £250. Not much, especially when you consider that Roy has been used more than virtually every other archive character.

When was that? Because you're right, they do release archive material of Roy, they haven't left him languishing in the archives like a lot of other comic characters.

It was before the archives. Maybe 2003 or something? Can't quite remember.

You do realise that that's only two years after it ended? Hardly a significant time. If you got the date right, the courts apparently boobed by not realising he had been published in Match of the Day magazine.

[Captain Storm]

Hi Lew and indeed everybody else too,

Lew , I was not trying to portray you as somebody acting out of self interest. I was painting with a broad brush in that I was referring to comics of the more recent past , say over the last 20 years or so being effectively off limits to scanners. That is why I mooted the fact that your own work would probably not be included. In fact I think you are one of the few creators from the 1980s that fans are acutely aware of. And I'm pretty sure they know your stance on copyright as it pertains to your own work. So obviously from a personal standpoint , if I ever featured any publication online where you had an input , I would make certain that your creations would be left out. As that is your wish and I respect that. As for "piracy" doing more harm than good , only time will tell. I don't wish to sound malignant here , but if the Beano sales dip any further , then I'm pretty certain D.C. Thomson will pull the plug on that as well. It is only the middle aged nostalgics who are keeping Commando afloat. When every paper edition is gone , D.C. Thomson still have their newspapers and women's magazines to fall back on. Then we will all be talking about the past literally. And I'm pretty certain at that stage the boys at Dundee will not be concerned about archiving a lost cause which earned them millions upon millions many years ago but has since long seen it's best by date expire. Of course newspapers have a long tradition of archiving , simply because they needed a tangible reference to any lawsuits made against incorrect reporting in print. Lew , we've had our ups and downs in the past , we've fought long and hard battles , we've also sprang to each others defence when the need arised , you also have no problem taking me to task , so I hope you won't mind me doing likewise. As you know , I do not feature entire runs of comics on my blog. I have featured the occassional full comic if it was a milestone or a merger , but in the main I feature strip runs of characters from many years ago. It's easy to quote the law , but the law isn't all right , and I'm sure publishers have more to do than take a bunch of scanners to court because they scanned some comics. In fact a judge would probably wonder what the fuss was all about. I certainly am not encouraging people to break the law and this is not referring to anything already said , just my own words now. Everybody has their own take on the debate at hand , some more strongly than others , but that is the nature of a debate. And of course a debate like this is going to be very long simply because people have such strong views on it. I also know you shouldn't be explaining yourself , so Lew , don't. You have no need to. You have your view and others have theirs. Both think they're right and both think the other party is wrong. So we should just get on with life. Because it's short enough and to be honest , with all taken into consideration , the scanning furore certainly won't be listed as one of the major crimes of the 21st Century. Peace friend,

sincerely,

The Cap.

[colcool007]

Guys and gals. Thank you for an interesting and enlightening discussion. As we can see every shade of opinion from one side (scanning without permission is naughty) to the other (gimme dem scans!). While I agree with some posts and disagree with others, I am glad to see that we have avoided an all-out flame war.

Keep it clean and keep it philosophical.

[Digifiend]

if the Beano sales dip any further , then I'm pretty certain D.C. Thomson will pull the plug on that as well

It'll take a while for them to dip to the same level as Dandy. It currently sells four times as many copies.

[Captain Storm]

Hi Digi ,

I was just saying that as a business , if something fell below acceptable margins , then it would uncerimoniously get the chop. Nothing is sacred when it comes to making a profit. Perhaps a bit apocalyptic on my part , but just making the point that if it did happen , then we would be talking about comics that do not exist anymore. Let's hope that never happens.

The Cap.

Clean and Philosophical

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

It's been pointed out that early WHIZZER and CHIPS [1969-] issues may start to be deteriorating [or at least some of the pages inside----certainly some of mines are starting to 'bleed through' to the other sides.]


At the moment, the comics have not been totally ruined and can be salvaged and improved, but signs are it's a terminal condition.


Hopefully someone on here has good early copies of W+C that are free of this defect: if not, then these affected pages are ideal candidates for urgent scanning [so the deterioration can be 'halted' in suspended animation].

Later on , perhaps technology can easily rectify the blemishes seen on some of these pages---at the moment, it's a laborious, hands-on job that few would be willing to take on.

If any vintage comics are in need of scanning over others, it's probably these ones.

I intend scanning the worst-affected pages I have and cataloguing them , this could help any future restoration dudes, rather than have them saddled with an unreadable mush in 50 years time.


Of course, NOBODY may want to restore these works in future, this is just a 'better-safe-than-sorry scenario. All we have to lose is a few bob on the electric bill.

[Niblet]

Anyone contemplating the creation of a digital comic archive for posterity will need to consider how best to incorporate the additional information that researchers of the future will require (writer and artist [including ghosted work] credits where known, for example).

[stevezodiac]

Of course IPC Knockouts had the colours bleeding through when they were published so no hope for them.

[Niblet]

In the same way that some folk have themselves cryogenically preserved in the hope of a future cure for whatever terrible malady afflicts them, scanners can digitise pages exhibiting evidence of cocoa stains, bleed-through or rodential mastication, safe in the knowledge that one day these defects will be fixed with but a single thought-command.

I'm sure (if it doesn't already exist) there will soon be a way to 'subtract' a reversed image of the page that's bleeding through, from the image of the affected page.

[Captain Storm]

Was it Oscar Wilde who said publish and be damned?

The Cap.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

I believe it was, Cap!

Future historians will have better technology than us, but they will probably still be limited by the quality of the source materials they have at hand...it's better for them if they can access pages that are not severely damaged in the first place.

In the film world, works like CASABLANCA, PSYCHO, and others can be seen today in pristine blu-ray, as the original negatives were saved and set aside. Other works like KING KONG and THE ISLAND of LOST SOULS, although fairly decent, are not quite as sharp as the source materials are derived from dupe prints. Even a few early silents are in better shape than some talkies.

KING KONG will probably never be as crystal-clear as CASABLANCA,
no matter what technological marvels the future brings us: it's all down to good-quality source materials. Stuff that is in advanced state of decomposition [like many IPC pages will be in, in a matter of decades] could undoubtedly be improved, but will never be as clear again as something that is derived from a decent source.


In the comic world, ideally sharp images can be reproduced direct from the original inkings: in the case of IPC, I assume a lot of the originals are missing, and in many cases the only source materials are the ageing comics themselves.

Niblet: I notice that in your own [excellent] KRAZY data-blog even some of your examples are 'bleed-through' jobs as well----and these comics only date from the late 70s! There seems to be a serious case for concern regarding the long-term prospects for preserving IPC printed matter.

Us 'primitive dudes' at this end can help these as-yet unborn 'futuristic restoration dudes' folks by putting the ''early bleed-through' jobs into cold-storage on DVD-rom so they can have access to comic material that can still be salvaged.



Yes, we need to suss out a way to contact these future-dudes, and let them know that salvageable images are held in storage, as 90-year-old copies of WHIZZER and CHIPS crumble in their very hands: hopefully this site will still be around in 50 years time [or an archive will] and perhaps we can leave a note for them on here.



Nobody on here is obliged to do this of course, but blank DVDs only cost about 12p and even if a few pages are scanned by a few of us, it could make a difference, it's not a big job . Bunging in a handwritten list of the dates/artists etc [as Niblet points out] on a bit of paper along with the dvd would also help.


It's not the entire comics that are affected at this stage, just a few scattered pages inside, but it is a bit worrying for the future. It would be a shame to let the state of these worthwhile comics slip into an unreadable state, but something can still be done about this at the moment.


It's the IPC ones that seem to be the most cause for concern, stuff like TV21 is on good quality stock and should easily last another 100 years, maybe more.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

I'm just trying to picture 'IMAGEWORX RESTORATIONS, INC', circa 2062:


white-coated boffins are seen, spraying a liquid rubberizing solution onto pitifully-decaying, 93-year old copies of WHIZZER and CHIPS, in order to stop them from crumbling.


Over in the 'KRAZY Restoration ' corner, a boffin-dude is 'drokking' and cursing, as the ancient 1978 copies of the comic [salvaged from a rubbish-tip in deepest Mega-Manchester] are in an exceptionally poor, pitiful state: just a black, blobular mass, the result of almost 90-years of successive 'bleed-through'.


Excitedly, another boffin-dude rushes in, beaming proudly as he holds aloft a package containing early 21st-Century hi-res scans of KRAZY, recently discovered on vintage DVD-rom format.

The boffins rejoice in this restoration breakthrough, and this 'Niblet' dude who provided these clearer images is feted and commended, and revered as a far-seeing genius.


The studio accountant worries about the legality of 'illicit scans': the boffins laugh at his short-sightedness, and break out some synthi-beer to celebrate this breakthrough.

A life-sized bronze statue of Niblet and Cheeky together, on an inscribed plinth, is to be allocated outside in the grounds of IMAGEWORX RESTORATIONS.

[Lew Stringer]

The studio accountant worries about the legality of 'illicit scans': the boffins laugh at his short-sightedness, and break out some synthi-beer to celebrate this breakthrough.

...then the beer turns sour as they realize the discs no longer work and the memory stick is faulty.

[Niblet]

Bunging in a handwritten list of the dates/artists etc [as Niblet points out] on a bit of paper along with the dvd would also help.

But haven't we established that paper is a far from satisfactory, short-lived medium? Surely including the additional info in the filename of each scan would be a better way.