If we had a list of the 100 greatest serials in girls comics

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, you have some episodes - do you have any thoughts?

Yes, I have the last six instalments, Tammyfan, as you know. I have no clear idea how other people are judging the stories they are recommending to you, but for me they must have that spark, that unusual take, that left-field approach to their plot or theme, which will raise the serial well above the ordinary. For the life of me I can't see anything like that in Be Nice To Nikki. I don't see it as anything more than a run-of-the-mill blackmail story. Yvonne Baxter is under strict instructions from her father to be nice to Nikki Norden, his boss's daughter. She is a lying, self-centred troublemaker, disliked by all her classmates. As a consequence, by association, the much nicer Yvonne gradually loses all her new friends. There is, nevertheless, no fundamental development because all the episodes are essentially the same. In the last one Nikki's father overhears his daughter telling Yvonne that if she refuses to help her make it look as though classmate Maggie is a thief, she will make sure that her father sacks Mr Baxter. Mr Norden immediately withdraws her from the school to enrol her in a school for problem children because she had been expelled from her previous school for exactly the same thing, and tells Yvonne that she is a good person for sticking up for Nikki (ie lying through her teeth to him in order to protect Nikki, and by extension her father's job), and that there is no chance of his sacking her father anyway because he is one of his best workmen.

Presumably it won't surprise you to learn that the serials I recommended to you, none of which have made it yet into the top 100, do have that spark that I referred to earlier.

[Tammyfan]

Okay, thank you for your thoughts. Mr Norden certainly had some odd ideas about friends if he calls a victim of his daughter's blackmail a true friend.

Re your stories: I did put up the only episode I had of Time after Time to see what others think, but no response. If you have more episodes, are you able to post them or provide a deeper discussion so we can judge better? And can you tell us more about the others you mentioned? I for one don't have enough information about them.

[Tammyfan]

The Pink Peril from Diana has been a popular one for discussion on the forum. We've been impressed with the art and like the way the colour pink and butterflies, which are supposed to be benign, into something frightening. So I shall advance it.

[peace355]

From what I've seen of The Pink Peril it does look good. There are a lot of stories on the list of possibilities that I'm not really familiar with, so I can't comment on those. Of course there is personal preference, Be Nice to Nancy seems well remembered and I thought it was fine but I agree with Phoenix that it was nothing new. I did a blog post highlighting it's similarities to "Hateful Harriet", but of course that's just my opinion.

Some stories I think should advance:

The Seeker, again a familiar plot of a person pretending to be mean while secretly helping people but I think it was well done, had a good setting and I liked that she had a more personal reason for her actions.

The Frightening Fours, I only own a few issues of this story, but it is a very interesting concept and quite scary.

Fran of the Floods, I haven't read but having read the summary from the Jinty Top 10 I think it may also be deserving of a spot.

[Tammyfan]

What is The Frightening Fours about anyway?

[Phoenix]

If you have more episodes, are you able to post them or provide a deeper discussion so we can judge better? And can you tell us more about the others you mentioned? I for one don't have enough information about them.

Yes I can, Tammyfan. I will do summaries of all five for you, starting tomorrow with The Frightening Fours.

[Tammyfan]

If you have more episodes, are you able to post them or provide a deeper discussion so we can judge better? And can you tell us more about the others you mentioned? I for one don't have enough information about them.

Yes I can, Tammyfan. I will do summaries of all five for you, starting tomorrow with The Frightening Fours.

Cool! Thank you very much!

[Tammyfan]

Fran of the Floods, I haven't read but having read the summary from the Jinty Top 10 I think it may also be deserving of a spot.

Here is an episode. When I came across this story I was immediately struck in how ahead of its time it was in anticipating global warming, climate change and disruptive weather patterns. That's what makes it really stand out for me. Art by Phil Gascoine.

[Tammyfan]

I am also putting up a sample of this story from Judy. I haven't nominated it and probably won't, but I was struck by the fact that Latin is at the centre of the story. That's something you don't see every day in girls' comics. Readers must have seen Latin in a new light after reading this strip. Okay, so I used to take Latin, so maybe I'm a bit partial as well. But maybe making Latin the hero of the story gives it the spark that Phoenix was on about.

Art by Eduardo Feito (but most of you will know that already).

[Tammyfan]

Be Nice to Nancy seems well remembered and I thought it was fine but I agree with Phoenix that it was nothing new.

Maybe it was nothing new. But those blackmail stories do suck you in and you follow them assiduously. I believe this was the case with Nancy, and why all signs point to it being popular and well-remembered. Why? Because you want to know how the victim will be freed from the blackmailer. Blackmail is always a tricky thing to deal with because of the delicacy over what will happen if the secret is exposed. Or how people will be affected. For example, what would happen to Mr Baxter's relationship with Mr Norden when he finds out about the blackmail? In the end we are not shown the reaction of Yvonne's parents at all. I suspect it was deliberate.

There is one blackmail story where I still want to know how the victim was freed: "Blackmailed!" from Suzy. I suspect that story concluded in the merger with Bunty.

By the way, I have removed Be Nice to Nancy from the possibles. I believe The Honourable SJ is a stronger bet because it is the only blackmail story I have seen where the blackmailer becomes a regular.

[Tammyfan]

Phoenix, you have some episodes - do you have any thoughts?

I have no clear idea how other people are judging the stories they are recommending to you, but for me they must have that spark, that unusual take, that left-field approach to their plot or theme, which will raise the serial well above the ordinary.

Yes, I like those types of stories too. It is precisely the reason I nominated Dracula's Daughter from Jinty. When the rain stops I will dig out the Jintys I want from the garage so I can discuss this story.

[matrix]

I have no clear idea how other people are judging the stories they are recommending to you, but for me they must have that spark, that unusual take, that left-field approach to their plot or theme, which will raise the serial well above the ordinary.
Presumably it won't surprise you to learn that the serials I recommended to you, none of which have made it yet into the top 100, do have that spark that I referred to earlier.

I understand where you are coming from in respect to your recommendations for this thread Phoenix, having an unusual take etc, but I can't help but feel this is from a male perspective, not taking into account what might have made a good serial to a female reader, therefore some serials from your list may not make it even though they may fit the criteria from a different point of view.
For instance (and I could be way off here and stand to be corrected if I am) it seems to me that some of the popular serials were character based eg Patty in 'Patty's world' where the story evolved around the character more so than the criteria from your list above.
I am at no time trying to doubt your expert knowledge in the titles that you have studied, I do not even disagree with you on your criteria, but as you have more knowledge than most on these titles could some be seen from the point of view I mentioned?

[Tammyfan]

The Frightening Fours sounds like a worthy contender. I shall be looking forward to reading what it is about.

[Phoenix]

I understand where you are coming from in respect to your recommendations for this thread Phoenix, having an unusual take etc, but I can't help but feel this is from a male perspective, not taking into account what might have made a good serial to a female reader, therefore some serials from your list may not make it even though they may fit the criteria from a different point of view.
For instance (and I could be way off here and stand to be corrected if I am) it seems to me that some of the popular serials were character based eg Patty in 'Patty's world' where the story evolved around the character more so than the criteria from your list above.
I am at no time trying to doubt your expert knowledge in the titles that you have studied, I do not even disagree with you on your criteria, but as you have more knowledge than most on these titles could some be seen from the point of view I mentioned?

Being male, matrix, I don't think I can exactly see a story paper serial, or even a novel, from a female reader's point of view, but I'm not unaware that the two can differ. I started my teaching career in a Grammar School, and while it changed its name twice, and its nature once, my sixth form Spanish literature classes throughout my career were made up predominantly of girls, and they certainly kept me on my intellectual toes, and as you may well appreciate, Merseyside girls are not backward in coming forward if they feel in any way offended. Having said that, it was also the case that after appropriate discussions they were prepared to accept that their view, while perfectly legitimate, wasn't the only one. We both adjusted.

I do accept your point that a serial that I don't like could well advance to Tammyfan's Top 100, and vice versa, after all we are being democratic, and she does seem largely prepared to listen to other members' views, but we may well disagree on the question of quality, and that doesn't leave anything like as much wriggle room. Novels like Pride and Prejudice and Middlemarch are quality novels whether seen from a male or female perspective. Obviously we are not judging the story paper serials in the same way, but I think we would agree at least that some of them are better than others, and therefore more worthy, or less so, to be considered for a place in a Top 100. I have already been persuaded to accept that the criteria for inclusion have to be widened to allow The Four Marys and Sue Day's family to get in as job lots because, like the Patty's World you mention, presumably no individual story would be strong enough to be included on its own merits. However, in the case of Be Nice To Nikki, I just can't see anything in it that would elevate it to the position of contender for even a Top 200. It is a run-of-the-mill tale whether seen from a male or a female point of view. In my opinion, although I haven't discussed it with any females!

[stevezodiac]

I received my first ever copies of Pixie this week and presumed it was a nursery comic but there were some thundering good stories in them in full colour. Am I correct in thinking, though, that you will not include literary adaptations as The Little Princess and The Secret Garden were among them as well as an Enid Blyton strip. It also had Sue Day but I presume they were reprints? I also noticed Lorna Doone was in Princess as well as Diana. Both in full colour but Ron Embleton's Princess version wins easily.