Wikipedia - aargh!

[Jonny Whizz]

I was just editing some comic-related pages on Wikipedia recently but I've noticed how the standard of writing seems to have really fallen on some of the Beano pages.

I'm sorry if the person who made these edits is on the forum but I feel like the focus of the articles has shifted to telling me about recent editions of the Beano (which I can read for myself), and seem to have largely been written by users with only a recent knowledge of the comic.

For example, I was reading the main Beano page when I noticed that a bit about comic idol had been added. I've edited it now but the standard of the original version was in my opinion very poor. It stated that the first vote was in 1997 (wrong, it was 1995) and it mentioned that the first one wasn't called Comic Idol because Pop Idol hadn't started yet. I changed the latter so it stated that it was later that the competitions began to be called Comic Idol.

Also, in the Minnie the Minx article, the word 'opportunity' was spelt incorrectly more than once, and in some cases the prose, which was once concise, has become rambling. An example of this can be found in Minnie's article, where most of the section on the Ken Harrison era discusses whether she goes to the same school as most of the other Beano characters.

Is anyone else frustated at the direction the Wikipedia articles seem to be heading?

[Digifiend]

Wikipedia is meant to be factual, not opinion, so the bit about what school Minnie goes to can be deleted. That's the sort of thing that belongs on a forum, not a wiki.

The good thing about Wikipedia is that if we don't like an article, we can change it.

[Jonny Whizz]

What is even worse is that in the Minnie the Minx article, Laura Howell doesn't get credited at all! She's been the main ghost artist for a while, and the first one she drew appeared in 2007.

[Shaqui]

Wikipedia is meant to be factual, not opinion, so the bit about what school Minnie goes to can be deleted. That's the sort of thing that belongs on a forum, not a wiki.

The good thing about Wikipedia is that if we don't like an article, we can change it.

Yes, and there's a cadre of idiots who go around changing articles back to the inaccuracies! Ask Kim Stevens, my one time associate on the GACCH, and who is a meticulous researcher. When Kim updated some articles with properly researched information, some zealous git went and deleted all the correct info and put back all the errors. In the end, Kim gave up...

[Digifiend]

Wikipedia should ban that git.

[swirlythingy]

Wikipedia's entire series on the Beano and the Dandy is a complete joke, as are its articles on the artists who appear in them.

Most articles are one- or two-paragraph stubs, and they're the lucky ones. Original research, or even just personal opinions, are everywhere. I do hope Jonny deleted that longstanding paragraph in Minnie's article starting with "Minnie has often had trouble with her neighbours..." and going on to summarise a couple of strips from 2004 or so as if they represented part of some grand continuity!

In fact, mistaking DC Thomson for DC-style continuity seems to be rife in general, with one-shot characters frequently being added to cast lists. Most of it reads as if the author read a few random comics and typed the first thing which came into his head, often veering off into wild speculation - fine for a forum, but not for an encyclopedia. Some of it also reads as if the author was eight years old.

Very little information indeed is imparted which could not be found out (or in some cases disproved) by buying the latest issue of the comic. In fact, and it's a mark of how serious the situation is that I'm saying this, anyone wanting general information on the Beano's history and current characters would be far better off on beano.com, which is at least mostly accurate in its non-outdated parts.

The entire series is ripe for a WikiProject. I'm not a Wikipedian myself, but I hope someone who knows what they're talking about can put things to rights eventually.

[Jonny Whizz]

I must say that the Minnie the Minx article seems a particularly bad case. I didn't alter the bit about her relationships with her neighbours, though I agree that it goes into too much detail about one-off characters.

I did rewrite the Tom Paterson and Ken Harrison sections - they were filled with stuff like discussing which school she goes to, while Laura Howell (who has been ghosting Minnie for some time) wasn't mentioned at all. In the section on the Ken Harrison era I did add the name of the writer (Iain McLoughlin), and point out that the relationship between Minnie and her Dad has been used a lot more, as I felt these were significant changes to the feel of the strip, and it was mentioned on this forum recently.

There's a few comic wikis around but I'm supporting this one (the link is to the Beano page):

http://britishcomics.wikia.com/wiki/Beano

I've written a few pages myself, although other people have contributed stuff. It's a work in progress, but yesterday I created a Little Plum page so it is being added to all the time.

[NP]

... Laura Howell (who has been ghosting Minnie for some time) wasn't mentioned at all.

If you were to mention everyone who has ghosted each strip, they would be very long articles. I think the premise is to just name the original artist and any with lengthy or significant spells as main artists. I know Minnie has had nine ghost artists during the time I've been at the Beano, and none of them are listed.
For instance, Dennis has had several ghosts, but even though I have been drawing him since 1999 on a regular basis, I'm not included.

[tony ingram]

I must say that the Minnie the Minx article seems a particularly bad case. I didn't alter the bit about her relationships with her neighbours, though I agree that it goes into too much detail about one-off characters.

I did rewrite the Tom Paterson and Ken Harrison sections - they were filled with stuff like discussing which school she goes to, while Laura Howell (who has been ghosting Minnie for some time) wasn't mentioned at all. In the section on the Ken Harrison era I did add the name of the writer (Iain McLoughlin), and point out that the relationship between Minnie and her Dad has been used a lot more, as I felt these were significant changes to the feel of the strip, and it was mentioned on this forum recently.

There's a few comic wikis around but I'm supporting this one (the link is to the Beano page):

http://britishcomics.wikia.com/wiki/Beano

I've written a few pages myself, although other people have contributed stuff. It's a work in progress, but yesterday I created a Little Plum page so it is being added to all the time.

I added an image to the Little Plum page, and a couple of categories. Nice one. Could do with a few more DCT characters on there, though (not really my area I'm afraid, except in general terms).

Regarding wikis in general, the main blessing is of course also the main curse; anyone can edit them, but not everyone has the same priorities or really gets the point. On the DC Universe Database wiki, there've been problems (largely thanks to DC's frequent continuyity reboots and multiple versions of characters) with new contributors simply deleting huge chunks of information because they don't think it's correct or relevant according to their understanding of the characters, then getting upset when their edits are undone by an eagle eyed admin.

[Digifiend]

The entire series is ripe for a WikiProject. I'm not a Wikipedian myself, but I hope someone who knows what they're talking about can put things to rights eventually.

We already have one. WikiProject Comics has a task force for British Comics. It actually cites Comics UK as a useful resource (pity the main site is still down!). I've just put my name down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... work_group

[Tin Can Tommy]

For example, I was reading the main Beano page when I noticed that a bit about comic idol had been added. I've edited it now but the standard of the original version was in my opinion very poor. It stated that the first vote was in 1997 (wrong, it was 1995) and it mentioned that the first one wasn't called Comic Idol because Pop Idol hadn't started yet. I changed the latter so it stated that it was later that the competitions began to be called Comic Idol.

haha i wrote those bits seeing as the original comic idol section read as

In a couple of issues, there was a a part called "Comic Idol". In this section were three comics, "Meebo and Zuky", "Home Invasion", and "Oh, oh, Si Co!" Only one of the comics was to stay and you could vote for which one you liked in "www.beanotown.com". The winner was "Meebo and Zuky" with the runner-up, "Home Invasion". Meebo and Zuky still runs today.

I think i actually improved it.

I think the real problem with wikipedia articles about the Beano is that theres almost no sources for Beano related information apart from the Beano itself and other stuff published by DC Thomson. The book "The History of The Beano" (published by DC Thomson so cant be used as a third party source)is probably the best source. There are the occassional news articles but there often irrelevant and just to celebrate a fiftieth birthday of the strip or saying Political Correctness has gone too far with Dennis.

[paddybrown]

The problem with Wikipedia's coverage is it's dominated by American superhero comic books (and has the annoying habit of often calling British comics "comic books"), and its coverage of British comics is dominated by 2000AD. Understandable enough, as both have active fandoms and credit their writers and artists, but it does mean that a fairly insignificant recent contributor to 2000AD is more likely to have an article than, say, Mike Western, Geoff Campion, Martin Asbury or Sydney Jordan, who didn't have articles until I wrote them last month, and artists with a long career who did some work for 2000AD, like Eric Bradbury or Ron Smith, will have articles that barely touch on anything they did outside 2000AD (I've done some work on Bradbury's article, but Smith's jumps straight from Deed-a-Danny in 1949 to his work on Judge Dredd).

There is a British comics workgroup, but it seems to be dormant. Perhaps a task force of people from here could descend on it en masse, identify articles that need work (or need created), and set about putting it right? I've set up lists of artists, writers and titles on my user page, including red links where articles don't exist yet. They're fairly indiscriminate and concentrates mostly on adventure artists because that's what I'm interested in, but anyone's welcome to use them to find articles to create or improve, and add names I've left out.

[Tin Can Tommy]

Im shocked at the lack of an article on Jim Petrie.

[paddybrown]

So write one!

[Tin Can Tommy]

i would but i dont think i know enough about him to create a decent size article.

Actually i'll try to write one.

I have now made the article. It could do with some work but at least it's better than no article.